REFLECTOR: Water Injection

Mon Dec 12 15:46:00 CST 2011

One other thing to look into is the cooling air exit.  I don't believe the
cowl openings are a very effective solution.  Observation suggests that the
air in the exit area is not moving away very well.  The usual exhaust exits
may provide some relief, but it does not appear that there is a good way to
get air out of the cowl.  I know that some work was done on a Cozy that
shows that "bow wave" exists up to about mid-cowl.  It would seem that
getting the air into the plenum and then back around and out the exit will
be full of turbulence and then hit a bow wave of high pressure in front of
the prop.

Of course my only hands on experience is with Brett 44VF which has an
augmentor style exhaust tubs.  His original flights (first 50 hrs) had very
nice engine temps.  I attribute that to his additional cowl exit tubes and
the pumping action of the exhaust stack within the tube.

Jerry Brainard
Jerry at JLBEnt.com

  	-------Original Message-------
From: Mark Magee
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Water Injection
Sent: Dec 09 '11 2:25pm

Brian,
I have a laundry list of things to go through on my overheating; timing,
vernatherm, VG's before cooling NACA's, sealing better the cylinder plenums
to begin with. I brought up the H2O injection should I remain warm after
all those items are checked/corrected.

Mark B. Magee
Sent from IPhone 4

On Dec 9, 2011, at 1:13 PM, Brian Michalk <[LINK: mailto:michalk at awpi.com]
michalk at awpi.com> wrote:

Ah.  In that case, I think it's a really cool idea.

I actually have another idea that is very risky, bordering on the insane,
that would be used to cool oil temperatures.

During the normal combustion of fuel, the byproducts are CO2 and water.
Now, a portion of that water makes it into our oil, where it is boiled off
when the engine reaches operating temperature.  So, if there's already
water in the oil, how bad could it be to add a little bit more?

The idea would be to have a really high pressure water injection system,
let's say 2,000 PSI, with an atomizing nozzle that is able to deliver
droplets in the micron range.  If this nozzle were installed to the crank
cover (the Franklin has one) at the top of the engine, the water should
never actually make contact with the engine oil.  It should instantly flash
to vapor, consuming heat in the process, and then get ejected out the
crankcase ventilating tube.  I suppose an alternate solution would be a
cover specially made into a water jacket that sacrifices water boiling to
the atmosphere, allowing the heat to be removed that way.

Actually, now that I think about it compared to conventional water
injection, it's probably no more hazardous than squirting it into the hot
side of the cylinder.  In my case, it would be nice to be able to sit on
the taxiway without having to worry about overheating before takeoff.  For
your case, you need it to cool in flight.

I don't recall; did you ever try retarding your timing to see if that
helped?

On 12/9/2011 12:57 PM, Mark Magee wrote:
Plane flying. Getting hot. I posted a month ago about my over temp issues.

Mark B. Magee
Sent from IPhone 4

On Dec 9, 2011, at 12:53 PM, Brian Michalk <[LINK: mailto:michalk at awpi.com]
michalk at awpi.com> wrote:

I think a better benefit would be as an octane booster.  Perhaps you would
even be able to run mogas in your IO540.

It's all theoretical at this point, whether it's in a Velocity or racer.
How practical would it be?  Perhaps its best to play with water injection
after you are flying the plane?

On 12/8/2011 8:13 PM, Mark Magee wrote:   All,
I am pondering whether it is worth considering installing a computer
controlled water/ water/methanol injector on my IO540 angle valve purely
for CHT reduction. I have used them in the past in autos with good effect,
and studied their uses in other applications. The numbers these [LINK:
http://www.alcoholinjectionsystems.com/Naturally-Aspirated-Kits/c25/index.html]
http://www.alcoholinjectionsystems.com/Naturally-Aspirated-Kits/c25/index.html
folks post are in line with what water injectors can achieve from my past
experience. Anyone used one on a Velocity/Canard/Flying aircraft?
>From my initial calculations less than 2 gallons of water would climb a
WOT 300 HP Velocity from sea level to over 12,000 MSL and then wouldn't be
needed for descent in all liklihood. So a 6 gallon tank (in the keel?)
would easily handle a long cross country. In cold weather 50/50 water
methanol I would think preclude induction icing, but you could always just
turn it off it it was cold enough and you didn't need it.
Just a thought, I am experimental :)
They were OEM on turboed and supercharged aircraft in WWII. Thoughts?

Mark Magee
N34XL XL FG 300HP
Brady TX

_______________________________________________  To change your email
address, visit [LINK: http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector]
http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector    Visit the gallery!
[LINK: http://www.tvbf.org/gallery] www.tvbf.org/gallery  user:pw =
tvbf:jamaicangoose  Check new archives: [LINK:
http://www.tvbf.org/pipermail] www.tvbf.org/pipermail  Check old archives:
[LINK: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html]
http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html

_______________________________________________
To change your email address, visit [LINK:
http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector]
http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector

Visit the gallery!  [LINK: http://www.tvbf.org/gallery]
www.tvbf.org/gallery
user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
Check new archives: [LINK: http://www.tvbf.org/pipermail]
www.tvbf.org/pipermail
Check old archives: [LINK:
http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html]
http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html

_______________________________________________  To change your email
address, visit [LINK: http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector]
http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector    Visit the gallery!
[LINK: http://www.tvbf.org/gallery] www.tvbf.org/gallery  user:pw =
tvbf:jamaicangoose  Check new archives: [LINK:
http://www.tvbf.org/pipermail] www.tvbf.org/pipermail  Check old archives:
[LINK: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html]
http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html

_______________________________________________
To change your email address, visit [LINK:
http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector]
http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector

Visit the gallery!  [LINK: http://www.tvbf.org/gallery]
www.tvbf.org/gallery
user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
Check new archives: [LINK: http://www.tvbf.org/pipermail]
www.tvbf.org/pipermail
Check old archives: [LINK:
http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html]
http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
          --------------------
  _______________________________________________
To change your email address, visit [LINK:
http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector]
http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector

Visit the gallery!  www.tvbf.org/gallery
user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
Check old archives: [LINK:
http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html]
http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/private/reflector/attachments/20111212/3c5c6c6c/attachment-0003.htm>