REFLECTOR: Gear down to land.

Sun Aug 26 20:11:27 CDT 2007

Scott,

You make the perfect argument why gear up is likely superior in a
surprisingly large percentage of off airport events.  You're exactly
right, the nose gear is the weakest link and unfortunately will depart
the plane first.  Now, skidding along on a smooth runway with the nose
gear up is a non-event (I know whereof I speak) but doing that on rough
or soft ground and the odds of the nose digging in and offering one a
prompt introduction to the panel and windshield is high.  The bonus
payoff will be flipping head over heals (or, a** over appetite) and
leaving both the plane and occupants much worse for the wear.  At least
with the gear up, the plane will be in a level, instead of nose down,
attitude as your create your own impromptu airstrip.  I'll take mine
"up" and with a double shot of luck.

Jensen 

-----Original Message-----
From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
Behalf Of Scott Derrick
Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 8:04 PM
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Gear down to land.

I have to think my preference except for a ditching would be gear down.
Heck with the structure, I'm concerned with the occupants.   Let the
gear and any attaching hardware absorb some of the kinetic energy before
it starts working on the main structure. 

Don't get me wrong, I think our Canards are the strongest airplanes
made.  It takes a lot to do major damage.  I've already told the story
about loosing the left brake in the company plane after landing, ending
up in a stand of trees off the end of the runway and nary a scratch.  We
were airworthy in a few hours after, fixing the brakes and wiping off
the tree bark stains..

As far as pitching over, the weakest part on the V in my opinion is the
nose gear,  I'm sure it would bend or break long before it could impart
a tendency to flip the aircraft end over end.  Any things possible of
course, and  if the off field landing is botch nothing will save you.

All that said, I think Tom did an excellent job and made all the right
decisions..

Scott

Chuck Jensen wrote: 

	<!--[if mso 9]--> <!--[endif]--> 
	The classic example of the choice gear up or down...where there
is no real choice, is landing in water.  Gear up or down?  It's not even
a close decision.  Gear up, the Velo is a Ski-Doo, gear down, it'll
mimic one of those diving ducks that plunge into the water, though with
one difference---they aren't upside down.

	The same principle applies to soft/soggy terrain.  As soon as
the gear settles on soft/soggy/boggy terra firma, the gear will stop but
the plane keeps going.  The canard does not make a good
stake-in-the-ground.  As the surface gets harder, the decision gets more
difficult as its a closer call.  In this case, Tom's wiring components
may not have been perfect, but his decision-making and piloting skills
were.

	As to the question, corn or beans, its difficult to say.  Is the
corn tassled out?  Ears formed?  Cargil or Pioneer? Beans podded?  Rows
filled in?  Too many variables to get my head around, but I do believe I
would do it gear up.  Otherwise as soon as the gear started to get hung
up in the beans/corn, the plane would want to nose-dive or flip
over--not good.  AOPA August article, eh?  Must have missed that one.

	Terry, keep cutting, stripping and terminating--you're getting
close.

	Chuck Jensen 

	 -----Original Message-----
	From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org
[mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On Behalf Of Terry Miles
	Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 10:54 AM
	To: 'Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list'
	Subject: REFLECTOR: Gear down to land.

	I concur with Dave's thoughts on this.  This forum is a good
information trading vehicle.  I soloed in 1967.  Since 1968 I flew full
time for a living, less a 3 year furlough.  I have never heard anyone
suggest gear up landings.  Since most of us are used to a final descent
to touch down w/ the ability to add power, losing that ability will get
you slow unless you are exceptional skilled.  There will be an intuitive
tendency not to continue descent if the view out the front window is not
friendly.  That's why you often read of people stall out or spin in on
engine-out landings which might otherwise have been less damaging to
spinal cord or head injury.  The gear legs will absorb down vector and
forward vector energy.  And if they shred and take out the whole gear
box structure, be thankful.  That is not to negate some of what Tom is
suggesting.  tip:  Given the change to land in a corn field with 6 foot
tall plants or in a bean field with 2 foot tall plants, which would you
choose and why.

	The August issue of AOPA carries a very good article about
preparing yourself for post lift-off engine failure.  

	Terry

________________________________

	From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org
[mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On Behalf Of David Bertram
	Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 3:45 PM
	To: reflector at tvbf.org
	Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: INCIDENT PHOTO

I am glad things worked out for you.  However two years ago I had an
engine failure and landed in a plowed field that was rutted and rough.
I put my gear down and the only thing damaged was my gear doors.  I have
been flying since 1960 and have always been taught to get all the gear
down you can except when ditching.  The gear will absorb some of the
impact.   

Dave Bertram

N350TX

-------Original Message-------

From: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
<mailto:reflector at tvbf.org> 

Date: 08/25/07 13:11:08

To: Velocity List <mailto:reflector at tvbf.org> 

Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: INCIDENT PHOTO

I think my recommendation for ALL is NEVER lower the gear in an
off-airport

landing unless you have a very smooth surface.  I think the thing that
kills

people is sudden stoppage from snagging the gear (especially the nose or

various combinations of gear legs collapsing causing an uneven situation

where the plane cart wheels or spins or breaks apart.

I am now convinced that the Velocity fuselage can withstand almost any

impact and slide-out ... If the plane is kept flying straight ahead with
a

constant bleed-off of speed until settling in.  I realize you have to
have

terrain that will cooperate.

Tom

On 8/24/07 9:17 PM, "mmerskey at sbcglobal.net" <mmerskey at sbcglobal.net>
wrote:

> Tom:

> 

> If you had a spam can the results would have been tragic.

> 

> I have a replacement prop for you. Call or write me

> 

> Milt

> 

> 214 845 1699      miltonm at airmail.net

> 

> -----Original Message-----

> From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org]
On

> Behalf Of Alex Balic

> Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 12:00 PM

> To: 'Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list'

> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: INCIDENT PHOTO

> 

> 

> Looks great even sitting there like that Tom...........

> 

> -----Original Message-----

> From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org]
On

> Behalf Of Tom Martino

> Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 11:01 AM

> To: Velocity List

> Subject: REFLECTOR: INCIDENT PHOTO

> 

> OK ... Here it is.  Hope the attachment goes through.

> 

> Tom

> 

> 

> 

> _______________________________________________

> To change your email address, visit

> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector

> 

> Visit the gallery!  www.tvbf.org/gallery

> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose

> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail

> Check old archives:
http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html

> 

> _______________________________________________

> To change your email address, visit

> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector

> 

> Visit the gallery!  www.tvbf.org/gallery

> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose

> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail

> Check old archives:
http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html

_______________________________________________

To change your email address, visit
http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector

Visit the gallery!  www.tvbf.org/gallery

user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose

Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail

Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html

	 <http://www.incredimail.com/index.asp?id=54475> 

________________________________

	_______________________________________________
	To change your email address, visit
http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector

	Visit the gallery!  www.tvbf.org/gallery
	user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
	Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
	Check old archives:
http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html

-- 

-
    Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within
limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add
"within the limits of the law," because law is often but the tyrant's
will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.

    Thomas Jefferson 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/private/reflector/attachments/20070826/8f86acbb/attachment-0001.htm 