REFLECTOR: Auto Marine or Airplane paints

Fri Jan 27 10:00:02 CST 2006

I repainted my canard and cowls with it. I will be painting the rest of 
my plane with it when I can.

Paid about half what Ronnie did? Though I still thought it was pricey.

I also thought it was very easy to spray, I got some dust spots on mine 
but I was painting in a metal shop, my fault.

The trick to painting poly I've been told is to use as slow a converter 
as you can.  And be sure to thin it enough.  If you painting in a hot 
environment you have to slow the evaporation down or it will not have 
time to flow out.

Scott

Ron Brown wrote:
>
> Yes, I used Awlgrip - 545 primer  and their PK polyester/urethane top 
> coat (no clear coat).
> www.awlgrip.com  Bob Jackson also used it - bobj at computer.org
>
> It is a tough, very durable, very glossy, long lasting paint.  But I 
> had problems getting it to flatten out on the third coats.  (First 
> coat laid down very nicely, 2nd coat begins to orange peel, third coat 
> is worse).  My plane sparkles even though there is no metal flake!!!
>
> I should have done more practice work to get the third coat to go down 
> properly.  Though expensive at around $500, one gallon of paint plus 
> one gallon of converter and one gallon of thinner covered my 173 very 
> nicely and I had some paint left over after re shooting a couple of 
> surfaces.  I used a HVLP gun from Harbor Freight.  By the way, the 
> paint can be bought cheaper - search google.
>
> AFTER I bought my paint, I found that it was a very hard paint to 
> shoot unless you had lots of experience using it.  Also, it is rather 
> hazardous so make sure you use a supplied air breathing system - not 
> just a respirator. But that is true of any of the Imrons, etc.
>
> Ronnie Brown
> N713MR (200 plus hours and lovin' it!!!!)
> http://home.sprintmail.com/~romott/
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terry Miles" 
> <terrence_miles at hotmail.com>
> To: "'Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list'" <reflector at tvbf.org>
> Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 9:47 PM
> Subject: RE: REFLECTOR: Auto Marine or Airplane paints
>
>
>> Scott D
>> , Ronnie,
>> Did you guys both use Awlgrip?  I am chasing down other answers be back
>> next week w/ what I can did up.
>> Terry
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
>> Behalf Of Scott Derrick
>> Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 10:43 AM
>> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
>> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Auto Marine or Airplane paints
>>
>>
>> As far as AwlGrip goes the rep told me the UV protection is in the top
>> coat, not their primer. You can use a UV primer under their primer but
>> its not needed.
>>
>> They've been painting fiberglass yachts for years and have the UV
>> protection down pat.
>>
>> Scott
>>
>> Al Gietzen wrote:
>>>
>>> Terry;
>>>
>>> I guess if you asked 5 different people who chose 5 different paints,
>>> they would all recommend the one they used for the same reasons that
>>> they used it. Here are my opinions.
>>>
>>> One of the first things to check is the UV protection of the primer.
>>> The US 545 epoxy primer (used by the factory) has UV protectors in it.
>>
>>> After using a urethane filler primer, and sanding most of it off, I
>>> shot everything with US 545. UV protection for the fiberglass is done,
>>
>>> no matter what the topcoat.
>>>
>>> My understanding is that the polyurethane paints (Awl-grip, Emron,
>>> others) are probably more durable than the acrylic urethane automotive
>>
>>> paints; however, I have friends who used the PPG acylic urethane
>>> paints on their long-EZs 12-13 years ago, and the they have stood up
>>> just fine.
>>>
>>> I also understand that the polyurethanes are more difficult to apply,
>>> and more difficult to do any repair later.
>>>
>>> I chose to go with the PPG automotive paints (used on GM, FORD and
>>> Diemler-Chrysler cars) because the color selection is immense, the PPG
>>
>>> dealer was close by, and I wanted a paint that I, an amateur, could
>>> shoot on and make it look good.
>>>
>>> I chose the 2-stage (base coat - clear coat) because it is more
>>> durable than single stage, makes a beautiful finish, and the metallics
>>
>>> that I wanted to use for trim only come in 2-stage.
>>>
>>> As Joe Ewen has outlined before on this forum, the PPG 2-stage offer
>>> good finish correction options and repairability. I painted in my
>>> garage, with marginal lighting. I had dust nibs, areas of mild
>>> orange-peel, and a few runs in the clear coat. I was able to sand,
>>> buff and polish all of those things away, and ended up with what I
>>> consider a very nice finish (and of course I also like the paint
>> scheme).
>>>
>>> With a paint booth and good equipment you should be able to avoid most
>>> of the considerable time that I spent buffing out my paint job.
>>>
>>> Best of luck,
>>>
>>> Al
>>>
>>> Subject: REFLECTOR: Auto Marine or Airplane paints
>>>
>>> Geez,
>>>
>>> When I started on this project in earnest about a year ago now, I
>>> wasted
>>>
>>> a lot of time reading tool catalogs. If I was smart, I would have
>>>
>>> signed up for a speed reading course instead. What follows is a
>>>
>>> rambling rant with this question to the Reflector...why did you guys
>>>
>>> chose for or against auto paint over marine paint over airplane paint?
>>>
>>> Sherman Williams, PPG, Akzo-Nobel they all have car, boat, and
>>> airplane
>>>
>>> products.
>>>
>>> For tonight at least my inclination is a nothing exotic, mid priced,
>>>
>>> run-the-mill automotive paint unless someone out there would caution
>>>
>>> against it. Reasons include cost and worries about the product
>>>
>>> experience of the painter and the tools at his disposal. (I am using
>>> the
>>>
>>> body shop next door to where I am building which will shoot anything I
>>>
>>> want in a regular spray booth big enough to fit the fuselage
>>> section.).
>>>
>>> I can use high VOC polyurethanes here in SC, and these products are
>>> said
>>>
>>> to be more results friendly, so I could go with marine or airplane
>>> lines
>>>
>>> if I saw the value to it.
>>>
>>> For the conversation, here's some terms I have learned recently. "Top
>>>
>>> coatings" are referred to in the auto world as base coat & clear coat
>>>
>>> systems. Sometimes these "top coatings" require a given type of
>>>
>>> undercoating, sometimes 320 grit sandpaper is enuf to make any
>>>
>>> undercoating compatible with a topcoat product. Obviously aftermarket
>>>
>>> autobody repair products can't be fussy. (Read the pdf's).
>>>
>>> http://www.lesonalna.com/ Under the Akzo-Nobel auto line of products,
>>> I
>>>
>>> used Utech for undercoating and anticipate using Lesonal products for
>>>
>>> topcoatings. I called the Lesonal product line and was told among
>>> other
>>>
>>> things that (in general terms) the higher up the price range in their
>>>
>>> products (Sikens product line) the fancier the end result, but less
>>>
>>> user-unfriendly regards application. (OR) It could also mean that you
>>>
>>> are looking at newer more environmentally friendly chemicals, which
>>> are
>>>
>>> required in Europe as much as in the USA. As a aside, clear coats do
>>>
>>> have the UV properties at least in the Lesonal line. The colored base
>>>
>>> coating of their topcoat systems do not have the UV protection.
>>>
>>> Airplane topcoats, JetGlo as example, can be applied without clear
>>> coats
>>>
>>> so UV issues are different.
>>>
>>> Akzo-Nobel is a very big multi-national org, based in Holland
>>> somewhere.
>>>
>>> Ronnie Brown used their marine Awlgrip on his bird. I am looking at
>>>
>>> Lesonal which is one of their auto paint lines. Alumigrip is in their
>>>
>>> airplane line, and it used extensively in GA certified stuff.
>>>
>>> http://www.akzonobelaerospace.com/products/category_selection.aspx?id=
>>> Po
>>>
>>> lyurethane%20Topcoats
>>>
>>> Further I have learned that nobody's auto/boat/airplane paint sales
>>>
>>> departments are not crossed trained, so we all are left to our
>>> collected
>>>
>>> wisdom.
>>>
>>> Anybody have any thoughts on auto vs marine vs airplane?
>>>
>>> Terry
>>>
>>> HISTORY
>>>
>>> If I helps future generations, below is more detail on what we have
>>> done
>>>
>>> to date.
>>>
>>> At Hangar 18 we started w/ a "primer-surfacer" and did the sand out
>>> and
>>>
>>> patch fill routine, until one day we said "enuf is enuf." (Actually I
>>>
>>> got to that point way before M. Collier did.) Then we sprayed on a
>>>
>>> final "primer-sealer" coat. All this was done just in the shop w/ good
>>>
>>> ventilation, but no spray booth. These are two different products and
>>>
>>> both are referred to by Akzo-Nobel as "under coatings."
>>>
>>> http://www.akzonobelcarrefinishes.net/default.asp?sid=65395&pid=420
>>>
>>> This was good stuff. Not too costly. Hangar 18 has painted about 5
>>>
>>> airplanes with it and had good success. Here are the details.
>>>
>>> The first sanding of the exterior surfaces is w/ 40 to 80 grit. Then
>>> we
>>>
>>> rolled (not sprayed) on 2 coats of UTECH U2K1 Primer with stock
>>>
>>> activator being A2K4. Watch out, product labeling seemed to change.
>>>
>>> Primer bought later just was labeled as 2K, but with a "product code"
>>> of
>>>
>>> P2K1. The web site had it as 2K100. Rolling as opposed to spraying
>>>
>>> this first coat forces the paint into all the little pin holes. Then
>>> it
>>>
>>> is guide coated, which is just a very light misting of diluted black
>>>
>>> acrylic water/based artist paint. This allows us to see undulations as
>>>
>>> we sand. We used long sanding boards now about 12 to 14 inches long.
>>>
>>> The grit of the sandpaper gradually goes up to 180 at the end. After
>>>
>>> the roller coats are sanded out, we do it again. This 2nd time just
>>> one
>>>
>>> spray coat of the same stuff is sprayed on. Guide coated again and
>>>
>>> worked with 180 grit paper. It helped that this first primer surfacer
>>>
>>> had a slight coloring in it.so that the last "primer-sealer" coat
>>> (UTECH
>>>
>>> E366 and the hardener is E375)which was white-white could be seen as a
>>>
>>> dif color as it was sprayed on. This helps the sprayer see what is
>>>
>>> happening-at least for the first sealer coat. Two coats of sealer were
>>>
>>> applied.
>>>
>>> End.
>>>
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