REFLECTOR: Auto Marine or Airplane paints

Fri Jan 27 08:00:56 CST 2006

Yes, I used Awlgrip - 545 primer  and their PK polyester/urethane top coat 
(no clear coat).
www.awlgrip.com  Bob Jackson also used it - bobj at computer.org

It is a tough, very durable, very glossy, long lasting paint.  But I had 
problems getting it to flatten out on the third coats.  (First coat laid 
down very nicely, 2nd coat begins to orange peel, third coat is worse).  My 
plane sparkles even though there is no metal flake!!!

I should have done more practice work to get the third coat to go down 
properly.  Though expensive at around $500, one gallon of paint plus one 
gallon of converter and one gallon of thinner covered my 173 very nicely and 
I had some paint left over after re shooting a couple of surfaces.  I used a 
HVLP gun from Harbor Freight.  By the way, the paint can be bought cheaper - 
search google.

AFTER I bought my paint, I found that it was a very hard paint to shoot 
unless you had lots of experience using it.  Also, it is rather hazardous so 
make sure you use a supplied air breathing system - not just a respirator. 
But that is true of any of the Imrons, etc.

Ronnie Brown
N713MR (200 plus hours and lovin' it!!!!)
http://home.sprintmail.com/~romott/

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Terry Miles" <terrence_miles at hotmail.com>
To: "'Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list'" <reflector at tvbf.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 9:47 PM
Subject: RE: REFLECTOR: Auto Marine or Airplane paints

> Scott D
> , Ronnie,
> Did you guys both use Awlgrip?  I am chasing down other answers be back
> next week w/ what I can did up.
> Terry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
> Behalf Of Scott Derrick
> Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 10:43 AM
> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Auto Marine or Airplane paints
>
>
> As far as AwlGrip goes the rep told me the UV protection is in the top
> coat, not their primer. You can use a UV primer under their primer but
> its not needed.
>
> They've been painting fiberglass yachts for years and have the UV
> protection down pat.
>
> Scott
>
> Al Gietzen wrote:
>>
>> Terry;
>>
>> I guess if you asked 5 different people who chose 5 different paints,
>> they would all recommend the one they used for the same reasons that
>> they used it. Here are my opinions.
>>
>> One of the first things to check is the UV protection of the primer.
>> The US 545 epoxy primer (used by the factory) has UV protectors in it.
>
>> After using a urethane filler primer, and sanding most of it off, I
>> shot everything with US 545. UV protection for the fiberglass is done,
>
>> no matter what the topcoat.
>>
>> My understanding is that the polyurethane paints (Awl-grip, Emron,
>> others) are probably more durable than the acrylic urethane automotive
>
>> paints; however, I have friends who used the PPG acylic urethane
>> paints on their long-EZs 12-13 years ago, and the they have stood up
>> just fine.
>>
>> I also understand that the polyurethanes are more difficult to apply,
>> and more difficult to do any repair later.
>>
>> I chose to go with the PPG automotive paints (used on GM, FORD and
>> Diemler-Chrysler cars) because the color selection is immense, the PPG
>
>> dealer was close by, and I wanted a paint that I, an amateur, could
>> shoot on and make it look good.
>>
>> I chose the 2-stage (base coat - clear coat) because it is more
>> durable than single stage, makes a beautiful finish, and the metallics
>
>> that I wanted to use for trim only come in 2-stage.
>>
>> As Joe Ewen has outlined before on this forum, the PPG 2-stage offer
>> good finish correction options and repairability. I painted in my
>> garage, with marginal lighting. I had dust nibs, areas of mild
>> orange-peel, and a few runs in the clear coat. I was able to sand,
>> buff and polish all of those things away, and ended up with what I
>> consider a very nice finish (and of course I also like the paint
> scheme).
>>
>> With a paint booth and good equipment you should be able to avoid most
>> of the considerable time that I spent buffing out my paint job.
>>
>> Best of luck,
>>
>> Al
>>
>> Subject: REFLECTOR: Auto Marine or Airplane paints
>>
>> Geez,
>>
>> When I started on this project in earnest about a year ago now, I
>> wasted
>>
>> a lot of time reading tool catalogs. If I was smart, I would have
>>
>> signed up for a speed reading course instead. What follows is a
>>
>> rambling rant with this question to the Reflector...why did you guys
>>
>> chose for or against auto paint over marine paint over airplane paint?
>>
>> Sherman Williams, PPG, Akzo-Nobel they all have car, boat, and
>> airplane
>>
>> products.
>>
>> For tonight at least my inclination is a nothing exotic, mid priced,
>>
>> run-the-mill automotive paint unless someone out there would caution
>>
>> against it. Reasons include cost and worries about the product
>>
>> experience of the painter and the tools at his disposal. (I am using
>> the
>>
>> body shop next door to where I am building which will shoot anything I
>>
>> want in a regular spray booth big enough to fit the fuselage
>> section.).
>>
>> I can use high VOC polyurethanes here in SC, and these products are
>> said
>>
>> to be more results friendly, so I could go with marine or airplane
>> lines
>>
>> if I saw the value to it.
>>
>> For the conversation, here's some terms I have learned recently. "Top
>>
>> coatings" are referred to in the auto world as base coat & clear coat
>>
>> systems. Sometimes these "top coatings" require a given type of
>>
>> undercoating, sometimes 320 grit sandpaper is enuf to make any
>>
>> undercoating compatible with a topcoat product. Obviously aftermarket
>>
>> autobody repair products can't be fussy. (Read the pdf's).
>>
>> http://www.lesonalna.com/ Under the Akzo-Nobel auto line of products,
>> I
>>
>> used Utech for undercoating and anticipate using Lesonal products for
>>
>> topcoatings. I called the Lesonal product line and was told among
>> other
>>
>> things that (in general terms) the higher up the price range in their
>>
>> products (Sikens product line) the fancier the end result, but less
>>
>> user-unfriendly regards application. (OR) It could also mean that you
>>
>> are looking at newer more environmentally friendly chemicals, which
>> are
>>
>> required in Europe as much as in the USA. As a aside, clear coats do
>>
>> have the UV properties at least in the Lesonal line. The colored base
>>
>> coating of their topcoat systems do not have the UV protection.
>>
>> Airplane topcoats, JetGlo as example, can be applied without clear
>> coats
>>
>> so UV issues are different.
>>
>> Akzo-Nobel is a very big multi-national org, based in Holland
>> somewhere.
>>
>> Ronnie Brown used their marine Awlgrip on his bird. I am looking at
>>
>> Lesonal which is one of their auto paint lines. Alumigrip is in their
>>
>> airplane line, and it used extensively in GA certified stuff.
>>
>> http://www.akzonobelaerospace.com/products/category_selection.aspx?id=
>> Po
>>
>> lyurethane%20Topcoats
>>
>> Further I have learned that nobody's auto/boat/airplane paint sales
>>
>> departments are not crossed trained, so we all are left to our
>> collected
>>
>> wisdom.
>>
>> Anybody have any thoughts on auto vs marine vs airplane?
>>
>> Terry
>>
>> HISTORY
>>
>> If I helps future generations, below is more detail on what we have
>> done
>>
>> to date.
>>
>> At Hangar 18 we started w/ a "primer-surfacer" and did the sand out
>> and
>>
>> patch fill routine, until one day we said "enuf is enuf." (Actually I
>>
>> got to that point way before M. Collier did.) Then we sprayed on a
>>
>> final "primer-sealer" coat. All this was done just in the shop w/ good
>>
>> ventilation, but no spray booth. These are two different products and
>>
>> both are referred to by Akzo-Nobel as "under coatings."
>>
>> http://www.akzonobelcarrefinishes.net/default.asp?sid=65395&pid=420
>>
>> This was good stuff. Not too costly. Hangar 18 has painted about 5
>>
>> airplanes with it and had good success. Here are the details.
>>
>> The first sanding of the exterior surfaces is w/ 40 to 80 grit. Then
>> we
>>
>> rolled (not sprayed) on 2 coats of UTECH U2K1 Primer with stock
>>
>> activator being A2K4. Watch out, product labeling seemed to change.
>>
>> Primer bought later just was labeled as 2K, but with a "product code"
>> of
>>
>> P2K1. The web site had it as 2K100. Rolling as opposed to spraying
>>
>> this first coat forces the paint into all the little pin holes. Then
>> it
>>
>> is guide coated, which is just a very light misting of diluted black
>>
>> acrylic water/based artist paint. This allows us to see undulations as
>>
>> we sand. We used long sanding boards now about 12 to 14 inches long.
>>
>> The grit of the sandpaper gradually goes up to 180 at the end. After
>>
>> the roller coats are sanded out, we do it again. This 2nd time just
>> one
>>
>> spray coat of the same stuff is sprayed on. Guide coated again and
>>
>> worked with 180 grit paper. It helped that this first primer surfacer
>>
>> had a slight coloring in it.so that the last "primer-sealer" coat
>> (UTECH
>>
>> E366 and the hardener is E375)which was white-white could be seen as a
>>
>> dif color as it was sprayed on. This helps the sprayer see what is
>>
>> happening-at least for the first sealer coat. Two coats of sealer were
>>
>> applied.
>>
>> End.
>>
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