REFLECTOR: Leveling the plane

Scott Derrick scott at tnstaafl.net
Fri Jun 17 09:24:17 CDT 2005 

Jim,

 >>whining some myself, but I don't think a reliable, convenient FRP 
reference is too much to ask.
 >>But maybe I'm asking too much in that regard? ... Jim S.

No, I think it is pretty lame that a FRP is not built in as part of the 
plans.  Every other plane I have worked on had one.

Scott


Jim Sower wrote:

> Scott,
> My airplane is not nearly as fast as yours.  My takeoffs get dicey at 
> around 3500' - 4000' DA.  Part of that is on me (overpropped 200 rpm, 
> obese ~ 100# over my "fightin' weight").  As it stands, my plane won't 
> do a yard over 150 kias, but some of that's due to prop and no pants.  
> I get conservative on high DA days and go to 80 - 85 kias since 
> excessive elevator deflection produces hideous induced drag and can 
> put the canard on the back side of the power curve and kind of trap me 
> in ground effect.  So I'm whining some myself, but I don't think a 
> reliable, convenient FRP reference is too much to ask.
> But maybe I'm asking too much in that regard? ... Jim S.
>
> Scott Derrick wrote:
>
>> Jim,
>>
>> I'm right there with you in "I find myself in a marginal - if not 
>> plumb dicey - takeoff situation much of the time."     I'd say "some 
>> of the time" though.
>> Living in the SW with a field elevation of 6500 ft compounds the 
>> problem.
>>
>> The fixed pitch prop is a big factor.  Our planes are so fast that 
>> its "difficult" to build a prop that will do well on the relatively 
>> slow take off and also push us along at 175+ knots. Density altitude 
>> comes into play for some of us.
>> The speed required for me to unstick the canard at takeoff can be 75 
>> knots if I'm at forward CG, and thats with full up elevator!    I 
>> will say that when I'm taking off at a near sea level airport my 
>> Velocity gets up and goes..  Which is what the factory guys see 
>> almost all the time.
>>
>> I know, I'm just whining about having my cake and eating it too.  
>> When I take off in the morning from GNT and land in near SFO to have 
>> a late breakfast,  I realize what a damn fine airplane the Velocity 
>> is....
>>
>> Scott
>>
>> Jim Sower wrote:
>>
>>> I really didn't intend to stir up all this fuss and bother.  I'd 
>>> thought that perhaps I was missing some simple reference.  Evidently 
>>> I wasn't.  All I wanted was a reliable, convenient access to the 
>>> FRP.  There doesn't seem to be one (perhaps it's just me being anal 
>>> about this, but I don't regard wing templates that don't seem to fit 
>>> all that well, using levels that seem to have come out of a box of 
>>> Cracker Jacks, as reliable OR convenient).  My needs are modest:  
>>> Being overpropped by about 200 rpm on my IO360 (that's on me and I'm 
>>> in the process of addressing it) and routinely 70 - 80# over the 
>>> 400# front seat limit (I'm addressing that too, but it takes more 
>>> time :o) I find myself in a marginal - if not plumb dicey - takeoff 
>>> situation much of the time.  I'm beginning to realize that fuselage 
>>> attitude is trivial and that wing and canard incidence is what I'm 
>>> actually interested in.  I've been spoiled by my EZ with its 
>>> clearcut, simple canopy rail references.
>>>
>>> I'm looking for a reliable indication of my ground attitude (most 
>>> particularly canard AoA) so that I can quantify whether and by how 
>>> much I have to overcome a negative AoA in order to rotate.  It would 
>>> be nice to know if, and by how much I might benefit by extracting my 
>>> nose strut from all that structure (not a trivial task) and 
>>> straightening it out a little to get cocked up enough to make 
>>> rotation a little easier.
>>>
>>> Of course I could replace my sorry-assed Lyc with a 230 hp rotary, 
>>> but that would involve rewiring pretty much the whole Switch/CB 
>>> panel and be a MAJOR task by any standard.
>>>
>>> Guess I need to revisit my actual needs in terms of available 
>>> resources ... Jim S.
>>>
>>> Scott Derrick wrote:
>>>
>>>> I built my gauge, at the time didn't know the factory had pre-built 
>>>> ones..
>>>>
>>>> NMFlyer1 at aol.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I had an odd thing happen with my wing incidence guage. After I 
>>>>> built my wings, when I was getting ready to attach them to the 
>>>>> plane I noticed that the incidence guage was warped.
>>>>>  
>>>>> I called the factory and asked if I could buy a new one. They said 
>>>>> yes, but told me that many of them do that and it would still be 
>>>>> accurate. I asked them to pacify me and send another anyway, which 
>>>>> they did.
>>>>>  
>>>>> Once the new incidence guage showed up, I was a bit confused. They 
>>>>> were not the same size. One of them was about 2" longer than the 
>>>>> other. I called the factory and talked to Mark M. to find out what 
>>>>> was up. ( I thought one of them may be for the small wing, another 
>>>>> for the large wing). He had me measure them and then things got 
>>>>> really strange.
>>>>> My origonal wing jig was not the right size for anything! Mark 
>>>>> said he really didnt know how that could happen, as they have a 
>>>>> jig they build them in. It was determined that the new one was 
>>>>> correct. I am glad I was anal enough to want to replace the warped 
>>>>> jig because the origonal one would have been wrong.
>>>>>  
>>>>> I appreciate the factory humoring me on my first call and sending 
>>>>> the jig anyway. They also did not charge me for the new jig.
>>>>>  
>>>>> So, if you have a bad feeling that a jig or piece is incorrect... 
>>>>> follow through. It just might be something is not right.
>>>>>  
>>>>> Kurt
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
>>>>>
>>>>>
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> _______________________________________________
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