REFLECTOR:IFR Ticket
Ronnie Brown
reflector@tvbf.org
Thu, 7 Aug 2003 11:14:16 -0400
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Re: REFLECTOR:Re:Velocity EuropeI got my instrument rating in 1998 =
before I started on the Velocity.
The Velocity is fine for IFR training, you'll just have to find a CFII =
that will train you in it. Probably easier if you find an independent =
(but not necessarily). A friend has a Europa that he took over to a =
local flight school and they agreed to train him IFR in it as long as he =
split the electricity into a standby bus and battery - all electric =
panel. He has done that and now we are finishing up his Dynon =
installation.
Another consideration, you probably need to check around and make sure =
you can find a FAA Designated Examiner who will give you the practical =
test in your Velocity. =20
A difference between the King and Sporty's video. The Sportys is more =
like a ground school - general coverage of the topic. King is more of a =
test prep, they go over the test questions and the why of the answers. =
You'll need both kinds. And I found the PC based written test practice =
very helpful too. I took practice tests until I could make three tests =
grading higher than 90. Then I took the written (and scored a 92.5).
Ronnie
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Chuck Jensen=20
To: 'reflector@tvbf.org'=20
Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 11:28 AM
Subject: RE: REFLECTOR:IFR Ticket
That's very helpful. I've done the King videos and was impressed with =
the teaching technique (of course, I have no standard of comparison; =
Sporty's may be just as good). I do use flight following (my radio work =
was dreadful, now its only bad), but was curious; did you do your =
training in the 172 because you didn't have your Velo yet? Or, is a 172 =
a slower, easier platform for training?
I like immersing myself in something like the intense training of the =
10 day course but concur with the posting that there is legitimate =
concern about how much one retains from a situation like that. However, =
as Ronnie pointed out, its only a license to start practicing for real.
Finally, more than once, I've heard that plastic planes and lightening =
don't mix well; not that any planes benefit from lightening. Since most =
young children don't read this forum, perhaps someone would share the =
highlights of the commingling of plastic-and-lightening.
Chuck
-----Original Message-----
From: reflector-admin@tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-admin@tvbf.org]On =
Behalf Of Ronnie Brown
Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 10:19 AM
To: reflector@tvbf.org
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:IFR Ticket
Here's how I did it. I am always trying to save money so this may =
not be best for everybody. But it was enjoyable and worked for me.
I read Gleim's instrument pilot manual.
I practiced using Microsoft Flight Simulator (FS 98)
Use flight following every chance you get. VFR flight following is =
very much like IFR communications except for the approaches.
Used the King test videos.
Found an independent CFII using NAFI's list.
Developed a training syllabus with the CFII (I like to study and =
practice before going up with a CFII)=20
Used my partners on our Cessna to fly right seat safety pilot =
(instead of having the instructor do all of the 50 or so hours =
required). I find instructors too often don't let you figure stuff out =
on your own.=20
I practiced using Microsoft Flight Simulator (FS 98)
I practiced using Microsoft Flight Simulator (FS 98)
I used 30 hours of CFI time and 20 hours of Safety Pilot time for a =
total of 50 hours.
This occurred over a period of 6 months. Oh and by the way, get =
your CFII to do a complete IFR flight with you early in your training - =
else it doesn't make a whole lot of sense until too late.
And as someone recently pointed out, all this does is get you the =
instrument rating and an license to learn. Proceed slowly as you build =
confidence flying in the clouds and making approaches while in the clag. =
And don't fly too close to lightning storms in plastic airplanes!!!!!!
My total cost was about $2500 (CFII, $30 per hour for our 172, and =
books, materials, etc.) and very much worth it!
Ronnie
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Chuck Jensen=20
To: 'reflector@tvbf.org'=20
Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 10:02 AM
Subject: REFLECTOR:IFR Ticket
Ronnie has certainly wetted a persons appetite for finally getting =
their IFR ticket. Oshkosh this year was a great example of the value. =
Us VFRers were always looking at the air show with one eye and checking =
the weather with the other. Since I've been flying for over 20 years, I =
thought it was getting close to the time where it might be appropriate =
to upgrade the VFR ticket.
Now, the best way? Any experience or opinions out there about the =
best, most efficient program? The 10 day wonder programs look like =
about $3,500 and you stay there. The PIC program is about $5,000 but =
you work out of your home base, again for 10 intensive days. I've heard =
so many unsat experiences (not necessarily in our local, but everywhere) =
of attempting to do it locally where the program is not well defined or =
organized and drags out over many months, or longer. =20
So, any thoughts or experiences to provide guidance.
Chuck
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<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I got my instrument rating in 1998 =
before I=20
started on the Velocity.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>The Velocity is fine for IFR =
training, you'll=20
just have to find a CFII that will train you in it. Probably =
easier if you=20
find an independent (but not necessarily). A friend has a Europa =
that he=20
took over to a local flight school and they agreed to train him IFR in =
it as=20
long as he split the electricity into a standby bus and battery - all =
electric=20
panel. He has done that and now we are finishing up his Dynon=20
installation.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Another consideration, you probably =
need to=20
check around and make sure you can find a FAA Designated Examiner who=20
will give you the practical test in your Velocity. =
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>A difference between the King and =
Sporty's=20
video. The Sportys is more like a ground school - general coverage =
of the=20
topic. King is more of a test prep, they go over the test =
questions and=20
the why of the answers. You'll need both kinds. And I found =
the PC=20
based written test practice very helpful too. I took practice =
tests until=20
I could make three tests grading higher than 90. Then I took the =
written=20
(and scored a 92.5).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Ronnie</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dcjensen@dts9000.com =
href=3D"mailto:cjensen@dts9000.com">Chuck=20
Jensen</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dreflector@tvbf.org=20
href=3D"mailto:'reflector@tvbf.org'">'reflector@tvbf.org'</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, August 07, 2003 =
11:28=20
AM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: REFLECTOR:IFR =
Ticket</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D637543914-07082003><FONT size=3D2>That's very =
helpful. =20
I've done the King videos and was impressed with the teaching =
technique (of=20
course, I have no standard of comparison; Sporty's may be just as =
good). =20
I do use flight following (my radio work was dreadful, now its only =
bad), but=20
was curious; did you do your training in the 172 because you didn't =
have your=20
Velo yet? Or, is a 172 a slower, easier platform for=20
training?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D637543914-07082003><FONT =
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D637543914-07082003><FONT size=3D2>I like immersing =
myself in=20
something like the intense training of the 10 day course but =
concur with=20
the posting that there is legitimate concern about how much one =
retains=20
from a situation like that. However, as Ronnie pointed out, its =
only a=20
license to start practicing for real.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D637543914-07082003><FONT =
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D637543914-07082003><FONT size=3D2>Finally, more =
than once, I've=20
heard that plastic planes and lightening don't mix well; not that any =
planes=20
benefit from lightening. Since most young children don't read =
this=20
forum, perhaps someone would share the highlights of the commingling =
of=20
plastic-and-lightening.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D637543914-07082003><FONT =
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D637543914-07082003><FONT =
size=3D2>Chuck</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> =
reflector-admin@tvbf.org=20
[mailto:reflector-admin@tvbf.org]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Ronnie=20
Brown<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, August 07, 2003 10:19 =
AM<BR><B>To:</B>=20
reflector@tvbf.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: REFLECTOR:IFR=20
Ticket<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Here's how I did it. I am =
always=20
trying to save money so this may not be best for everybody. =
But it was=20
enjoyable and worked for me.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I read Gleim's instrument pilot=20
manual.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I practiced using Microsoft =
Flight Simulator=20
(FS 98)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Use flight following every =
chance you=20
get. VFR flight following is very much like IFR communications =
except=20
for the approaches.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Used the King test =
videos.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Found an independent CFII using =
NAFI's=20
list.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Developed a training syllabus =
with the CFII=20
(I like to study and practice before going up with a=20
CFII) </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Used my partners on our Cessna =
to fly right=20
seat safety pilot (instead of having the instructor do all of the 50 =
or so=20
hours required). I find instructors too often don't let you figure =
stuff out=20
on your own. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I practiced using Microsoft =
Flight Simulator=20
(FS 98)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I practiced using Microsoft =
Flight Simulator=20
(FS 98)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I used 30 hours of CFI time and =
20 hours of=20
Safety Pilot time for a total of 50 hours.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>This occurred over a period of 6 =
months. Oh and by the way, get your CFII to do a complete IFR =
flight=20
with you early in your training - else it doesn't make a whole =
lot of=20
sense until too late.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>And as someone recently pointed =
out, all=20
this does is get you the instrument rating and an license to =
learn. =20
Proceed slowly as you build confidence flying in the clouds and =
making=20
approaches while in the clag. And don't fly too close to =
lightning=20
storms in plastic airplanes!!!!!!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>My total cost was about $2500 =
(CFII, $30 per=20
hour for our 172, and books, materials, etc.) and very much worth=20
it!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Ronnie</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- =
</DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dcjensen@dts9000.com =
href=3D"mailto:cjensen@dts9000.com">Chuck=20
Jensen</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dreflector@tvbf.org=20
href=3D"mailto:'reflector@tvbf.org'">'reflector@tvbf.org'</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, August 07, =
2003 10:02=20
AM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> REFLECTOR:IFR =
Ticket</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D677531813-07082003><FONT size=3D2>Ronnie has =
certainly=20
wetted a persons appetite for finally getting their IFR =
ticket. =20
Oshkosh this year was a great example of the value. Us =
VFRers were=20
always looking at the air show with one eye and checking the =
weather with=20
the other. Since I've been flying for over 20 years, I =
thought it=20
was getting close to the time where it might be appropriate to =
upgrade the=20
VFR ticket.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D677531813-07082003><FONT=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D677531813-07082003><FONT size=3D2>Now, the best =
way? =20
Any experience or opinions out there about the best, most =
efficient=20
program? The 10 day wonder programs look like about $3,500 =
and you=20
stay there. The PIC program is about $5,000 but you work out =
of your=20
home base, again for 10 intensive days. I've heard so many =
unsat=20
experiences (not necessarily in our local, but everywhere) of =
attempting to do it locally where the program is not well defined =
or=20
organized and drags out over many months, or longer. =20
</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D677531813-07082003><FONT=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D677531813-07082003><FONT size=3D2>So, any =
thoughts or=20
experiences to provide guidance.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D677531813-07082003><FONT=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D677531813-07082003><FONT=20
=
size=3D2>Chuck</FONT></SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>=
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