REFLECTOR: Trailing Edge Aileron Fence and door open emergency
procedures
Scott Derrick
reflector@tvbf.org
Fri, 01 Aug 2003 18:31:53 -0600
Hay Greg!
Soon as I finish my exhaust system upgrade which is requiring a major
cowling redesign I may give um a go!
You know I'm always looking for ways to reduce my hot and high altitude
takeoff distances!
Scott
Greg Poole wrote:
> Hi Scott,
>
> You're flying & obviously a motivated soul....when you going to put this
> information to the test and report back to all us curious builders? ;^ )
> Greg in Sydney.
> STD RG Elite
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Scott Derrick" <scott@tnstaafl.net <mailto:scott@tnstaafl.net>>
> To: <reflector@tvbf.org <mailto:reflector@tvbf.org>>
> Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 12:07 PM
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Trailing Edge Aileron Fence and door open
> emergency procedures
>
> > Rodney,
> >
> > Thanks a bunch for the info and pics!
> >
> > Scott
> >
> > Rodney Brim wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > > Sorry I'm a month late in responding. Am fighting cancer and low
> energy and
> > > don't get to the plane much to measure or take pictures. But I
> recently did
> > > and here they are. I also looked up my original research. The
> take-off
> > > roll was reduced by over 20% not 15%. Actually at the time I
> measured it,
> > > it was roughly 22%.
> > >
> > > Before I do the numbers and picture story I want to suggest you all
> add a
> > > comment to your emergency procedures.
> > >
> > > 1. If the door pops open fully, DO NOT TURN AWAY FROM THE OPEN DOOR.
> > >
> > > If you, like I, ever have that experience. You will start a rapid
> roll away
> > > from the door to an inverted position. For me the door opened
> slightly as I
> > > departed... with the gear coming up it pressurized the cabin and
> pops the
> > > door wide open, and then if you turn away from the door (to head
> back to the
> > > airport) it wants to roll and spin into the ground, in my case at
> about 200
> > > feet. Opposite rudder and aileron will hold you at a 60 degree
> bank angle,
> > > but won't get you out of the fix as you're going to stall in that
> > > configuration. There is a way out, but that's another
> conversation. OK
> > > back to trailing edge fence.
> > >
> > > I've attached a couple of pictures. They are located on the
> inboard side of
> > > the ailerons. They point directly into the wind. If you are
> testing, you
> > > can cut them out of plexiglass clipboards and hot glue them in
> place. I did
> > > for all of my testing. I also wrote this up in an article in
> Velocity Views
> > > a couple of years ago.
> > >
> > > Specs:
> > > 1. Position. They are located on the inside of the aileron, but face
> > > directly into the wind, not the angle of the aileron.
> > > 2. They extend back from the trailing edge 1.5 inches, and 5 inches
> above
> > > the trailing edge and 2.5 inches below.
> > > 3. From that position the top and bottom dive into the wing. The
> length of
> > > the top (from wing to end of trailing edge) is 12 inches. The
> bottom is 9
> > > inches, but note that's because the trailing edge of the stall
> fence is not
> > > perpendicular to the ground. Instead of dropping at a 90 degree
> angle at
> > > the top (which may be a preferable design), I slopped mine forward
> at a 70
> > > degree angle.
> > >
> > > |---- 12 "------------------ 70
> > > -
> > > -
> > > -
> > > |--- 9" ----------|
> > >
> > >
> > > That's roughly the shape in a text format, except the bottom slopes
> up to
> > > meet the underside of the wing and the top slopes down to meet the
> top. But
> > > both of those may be better served by having a longer run into the
> wing.
> > > Klaus was the one who helped me with this and it wasn't a value at
> the time.
> > >
> > > Hope that helps. Fly safe.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Rodney Brim,
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: reflector-admin@tvbf.org <mailto:reflector-admin@tvbf.org>
> [mailto:reflector-admin@tvbf.org]On
> > > Behalf Of Rene Dugas
> > > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 3:24 PM
> > > To: reflector@tvbf.org <mailto:reflector@tvbf.org>
> > > Subject: RE: REFLECTOR:Aileron Fence
> > >
> > >
> > > I would be interested in dimensions and locations of fences.
> > > Thanks,
> > > Rene'
> > > XL RG
> > > rdugas@bayou.com <mailto:rdugas@bayou.com>
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: reflector-admin@tvbf.org <mailto:reflector-admin@tvbf.org>
> [mailto:reflector-admin@tvbf.org] On
> > > Behalf Of Rodney Brim
> > > Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2003 9:12 PM
> > > To: reflector@tvbf.org <mailto:reflector@tvbf.org>
> > > Subject: RE: REFLECTOR:Aileron Fence
> > >
> > > Hi Chuck,
> > >
> > > 1. I got a >15% reduction in take-off roll on my final version of the
> > > fences. Looks like that is attributable to driving the air more
> > > directly
> > > over the wing at slower speeds and not having it slide down the wing,
> > > which
> > > if you do some dirty oil tests you will see that it is doing.
> > > 2. It doesn't effect your stall, that's all governed by the canard.
> > > 3. It feels like it reduces roll rate slightly. I didn't measure it,
> > > but
> > > you can tell the plane has more tail feathers, especially as you move
> > > the
> > > fences out along the wing, which I would not suggest. To me it makes
> > > the
> > > plane feel more stable.
> > > 4. Reduction in cruise speed is dependent upon height of the fences and
> > > location. At the location and height I have them, I have no reduction
> > > in
> > > cruise speed.
> > >
> > > 5. I think they should be standard on the kit... but then what do I
> > > know. I
> > > think everyone should move to forward hinging doors;)
> > >
> > > Rodney Brim,
> > > PS I have a picture and dimensions if you want them. They probably
> > > helped
> > > save my neck as I had an ugly door pop, going inverted stall at 200
> feet
> > > coming off a runway a couple of years ago... sometimes you can use all
> > > the
> > > stability and directional control you can get your hands on.
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: reflector-admin@tvbf.org <mailto:reflector-admin@tvbf.org>
> [mailto:reflector-admin@tvbf.org]On
> > > Behalf Of Chuck Jensen
> > > Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2003 7:30 AM
> > > To: 'reflector@tvbf.org' <mailto:'reflector@tvbf.org'>
> > > Subject: REFLECTOR:Aileron Fence
> > >
> > >
> > >>From the Newsletter, some preliminary flight testing seemed to show
> > > than an
> > > inboard aileron fence had merit for reducing takeoff distance,
> > > increasing
> > > climb rate and perhaps reducing stall speed while not affecting cruise
> > > performance and turning characteristics. Has this become a
> concensus or
> > > is
> > > the jury still out? And, is there a standard template for such a
> fence?
> > >
> > > Chuck Jensen
> > > XL RG
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
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> > >
> > >
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> > >
> > >
> > >
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> > >
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> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> >
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