REFLECTOR: Reflector Digest, Vol 101, Issue 32

Wed Aug 14 11:29:39 CDT 2013

I think we should just settle this the old fashioned way, we should have a duel at high noon on Friday, middle of the runway at Sebastian, if winglets prevail, then all those without must install them, of no winglets prevail, then they must all be removed. That will settle things once and for all……

From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On Behalf Of jeff findarle
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 10:10 PM
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Reflector Digest, Vol 101, Issue 32

OK Guys, i am sorry I have brought you two against each other. We are a Brotherhood who LOVE these little Velos. Let's not do this to each other. We may need each other sometime down the road and it's not worth throwing away a friend when we are in need. I want you to know I appreciate you both for your comments. I know we are all different skill levels and have many different hours in different aircraft. Lets just leave it at that. This A/C is a very stable A/C and I know there are a TON of them without the bottom winglets. And their owners love them. I am just to a point where I can either put them on or not. It is a little more work at this point, but thats Ok for safety sake in my book. It sounds like I may be Ok, but at my field elev of 5622' I will take all the control and lift I can get. From what I understand, the airflow off the wing is stopped by the winglet, thus stopping/slowing the vorticies it could create. And hopefully increasing lift and control at lower speeds. Sort of boxing in the airflow so it doesn't slip off the wing. As when i would slip my Citabria in. Am I right or wrong here?
Just trying to understand the aerodynamics of the situation.

TEAM JEFF,
Jeff Findarle, GRI & Darin Heckel
Realtor                     Realtor

AllStar Realty
575 N main St.
Heber City, UT. 84032

Jeff's Cell 435-503-0514
Darin's Cell 435-671-3957
Off. 435-654-9440
Fax 435-654-9437

Distressed Property Experts, Short Sales a Specialty!
Don't Lose it, Sell it!

  _____  

From: David Rene Dugas <renedugas at gmail.com>
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org> 
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 5:44 PM
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Reflector Digest, Vol 101, Issue 32

Ahh. The BS deepens. 

If everyone who flys was Bob Hoover we would all be immune to getting behind the airplane or if we all had your skill, hours, experience, wisdom and preternatural foresight and immunity to surprise we would only be discussing color schemes. 

I must have missed the trashing of our wonderful planes. My point was each decision should be our safest within our personal limits.  "My name is René and I'm a winglet-aholic".  I went through all these same gymnastics and design and built small angled lowers but never flew with them after deep ruminations. I have gotten slow or had a headwind suddenly die leaving me slow and wallowing and glad I had what I had but I've done it in a Baron 58, King Air B200, c-172, etc.  I've even run over my wife's rose bushes with the mower. So I'm not bashing except my skills. I'm still practicing. 😊

Best wishes and long live our Canardian endeavors. 

My index finger is tired so by by for now. 

René Dugas

Sent from an Apple REALLY smart phone. 

On Aug 13, 2013, at 6:16 PM, Scott Derrick <scott at tnstaafl.net> wrote:

Rene,

I agree completely with you that I don't have comparative experience.   I do have 800+ hours in a V without winglets, and 2,000+ additional hours in other aircraft.   I have a wee bit of knowledge about how some GA airplanes perform and how a STD RG stacks up against them in very strong cross winds and gusty conditions.

I still think the  statement below is utterly untrue and it was what I disagreed with.

??With no wind and smooth approaches a 10 hour pilot can land a Velocity with or without winglets, but  with serious crosswinds and unstable ??approaches ( busy traffic, sharp turns towards final) you will get in trouble without winglets fast.

its bullshit. I say that because I don't like the airplane being trashed. Its very stable, easy to handle, if your used to a fast and slippery airplane.  No different from any other fast high performance airplane. lower winglets or not. 

Scott

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Reflector Digest, Vol 101, Issue 32
From: David Rene Dugas  <mailto:renedugas at gmail.com> <renedugas at gmail.com>
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list  <mailto:reflector at tvbf.org> <reflector at tvbf.org>
Date: 08/13/2013 01:49 PM

Curious if you have comparative experience in a lower wingleted Velo with similar conditions as PIC. No one has said it can't be done. The question seems to be what configuration is optimal and optimal for what?  Maybe I have misread but it seems we are all saying the same thing. Most agree lowers offer more control, sans possibly sexier. Landing is one of the most important parts of the flying experience so we should do it as safely as possible. At least I want to fly with guys who think that way. �

René Dugas 

Sent from an Apple REALLY smart phone. 

On Aug 12, 2013, at 2:38 PM, Scott Derrick <scott at tnstaafl.net> wrote:

I disagree Wim,

I am based at a single runway airport with significant crosswinds most of the time. the terrain here is no conducive to orient the runway with the prevailing winds, it is about 45 degrees off from them.  And a 10-15 knot wind is more common than not.

I have no problem landing with a cross wind.  I've landed my V, a STD RG with no lower winglets many times with 30-35 knot wind at 45-90 degrees across the runway.  A couple times 40+ knots. Its no more difficult than in a 210 or Bonanza, the two other airplanes I have also landed here at KGNT quite a few times.  

Scott

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Reflector Digest, Vol 101, Issue 32
From: wimjhuisman  <mailto:wimhuisman at gmail.com> <wimhuisman at gmail.com>
To: reflector at tvbf.org  <mailto:reflector at tvbf.org> <reflector at tvbf.org>
Date: 08/12/2013 11:17 AM

Hello, 

I have about 600 hours without, and 130 with Winglets in a Velocity.  There should be no discussion, always put them on.

With no wind and smooth approaches a 10 hour pilot can land a Velocity with or without winglets, but  with serious crosswinds and unstable approaches ( busy traffic, sharp turns towards final) you will get in trouble without winglets fast.

Wim Huisman

N59wh and N127dh ( until 1999)

On Monday, August 12, 2013, wrote:

Send Reflector mailing list submissions to
        reflector at tvbf.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
        http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
        reflector-request at tvbf.org

You can reach the person managing the list at
        reflector-owner at tvbf.org

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Reflector digest..."

Today's Topics:

   1.  Anyone flying without bottom singlets? (jeff findarle)
   2. Re:  Anyone flying without bottom singlets? (Brian Michalk)
   3. Re:  Anyone flying without bottom singlets? (Kevin Baker)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2013 09:35:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: jeff findarle <flynfindarle at yahoo.com>
To: Reflector POST <reflector at tvbf.org>
Subject: REFLECTOR: Anyone flying without bottom singlets?
Message-ID:
        <1376325330.91325.YahooMailNeo at web126104.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

OK, I have talked to a few people who built their birds without the winglets and are telling me they are definitely fine without them. Any others out there like to comment?
Of course I realize that maybe they have not flown a Velocity with them, but they all said they have had no problems in slow flight controlability or in crosswind landings.
I really would prefer not to have them on the plane if possible.

?
TEAM JEFF,
Jeff Findarle, GRI  &  Darin Heckel
Realtor ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?                      Realtor

AllStar Realty
575 N main St.
Heber City, UT. 84032

Jeff's Cell     435-503-0514
Darin's Cell  435-671-3957
Off.               435-654-9440
Fax               435-654-9437

Distressed Property Experts, Short Sales a Specialty!
Don't Lose it, Sell it!
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/private/reflector/attachments/20130812/233d0695/attachment-0001.html>

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2013 11:41:33 -0500
From: Brian Michalk <michalk at awpi.com>
To: jeff findarle <flynfndarle at yahoo.com>, Velocity Aircraft Owners
        and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Anyone flying without bottom singlets?
Message-ID: <5209103D.6020805 at awpi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"

I am flying without the winglets.
I would like more directional control, and am compensating with faster
approaches.  I believe I will be testing them to see if they allow me
better control at slower airspeeds.

This will probably happen this fall after things cool off.  I was at the
airport testing on Saturday, battling my high temps.  It's just too hot
right now to tackle all of the minor squawks I've got.  On my last
flight I advanced the timing slightly and got a hot #3 cylinder as a
result, but my oil duct cooling scoop seemed to work keeping my oil
temps below redline.

On 8/12/2013 11:35 AM, jeff findarle wrote:
> OK, I have talked to a few people who built their birds without the
> winglets and are telling me they are definitely fine without them. Any
> others out there like to comment?
> Of course I realize that maybe they have not flown a Velocity with
> them, but they all said they have had no problems in slow flight
> controlability or in crosswind landings.
> I really would prefer not to have them on the plane if possible.
> TEAM JEFF,
> Jeff Findarle, GRI & Darin Heckel
> Realtor                     Realtor
>
> AllStar Realty
> 575 N main St.
> Heber City, UT. 84032
>
> Jeff's Cell 435-503-0514
> Darin's Cell 435-671-3957
> Off. 435-654-9440
> Fax 435-654-9437
>
> Distressed Property Experts, Short Sales a Specialty!
> Don't Lose it, Sell it!
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> To change your email address, visit http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>
> Visit the gallery!  www.tvbf.org/gallery
> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
> Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/private/reflector/attachments/20130812/97183027/attachment-0001.html>

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2013 11:55:36 -0500
From: Kevin Baker <flykb at verizon.net>
To: jeff findarle <flynfndarle at yahoo.com>, Velocity Aircraft Owners
        and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
Cc: Reflector POST <reflector at tvbf.org>
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Anyone flying without bottom singlets?
Message-ID: <5C1024D0-AD0E-4761-B3DD-BF9DB386D60B at verizon.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I have flown with winglets and had no issues.
I prefer them not only for flight characteristics that many have documented but I think they look better also
Kevin Baker

.

On Aug 12, 2013, at 11:35 AM, jeff findarle <flynfindarle at yahoo.com> wrote:

> OK, I have talked to a few people who built their birds without the winglets and are telling me they are definitely fine without them. Any others out there like to comment?
> Of course I realize that maybe they have not flown a Velocity with them, but they all said they have had no problems in slow flight controlability or in crosswind landings.
> I really would prefer not to have them on the plane if possible.
>
> TEAM JEFF,
> Jeff Findarle, GRI & Darin Heckel
> Realtor                                          Realtor
>
> AllStar Realty
> 575 N main St.
> Heber City, UT. 84032
>
> Jeff's Cell 435-503-0514
> Darin's Cell 435-671-3957
> Off. 435-654-9440
> Fax 435-654-9437
>
> Distressed Property Experts, Short Sales a Specialty!
> Don't Lose it, Sell it!
> _______________________________________________
> To change your email address, visit http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>
> Visit the gallery!  www.tvbf.org/gallery
> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
> Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/private/reflector/attachments/20130812/8361aca8/attachment-0001.html>

------------------------------

_______________________________________________
Visit the gallery!  tvbf:jamaicangoose

End of Reflector Digest, Vol 101, Issue 32
******************************************

-- 

_______________________________________________
To change your email address, visit http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector