REFLECTOR: Flying Magazine - 2009 Velocity accident (Mark Magee)
Brett Ferrell
reflector at velocityxl.com
Wed Oct 10 18:49:37 CDT 2012
[LINK:
http://www.velocityxl.com/content.php?1429-Installing-the-Vortex-Generators-on-Wings]
http://www.velocityxl.com/content.php?1429-Installing-the-Vortex-Generators-on-Wings
-------Original Message-------
From: none
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Flying Magazine - 2009 Velocity accident (Mark
Magee)
Sent: 10 Oct '12 18:40
I had not thought of VG's on the canard. Any pics available? Of course, I'm
a ways from flying.
Sent from my iPad
On Oct 10, 2012, at 6:24 PM, "Douglas Holub" <[LINK:
mailto:douglas.holub at gmail.com] douglas.holub at gmail.com> wrote:
I wish I had added the cuffs. I was excited about having the short chord
wing because I would be able to go faster at lower altitudes. My
Velocity flies 200 mph at 4000 feet with a parallel valve IOX-360. But I
would trade a few knots at the top end for a lower stall speed. Since I
didn't put the cuffs on the main wing, I didn't feel comfortable putting
vortex generators on the canard. Mine are only on the main wing. If I
had the cuffs on I would also put vortex generators on the canard and
drop my stall speed so I could land slower.
Doug
----- Original Message -----
FROM: [LINK: mailto:markinchampions at gmail.com] none
TO: [LINK: mailto:reflector at tvbf.org] Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders
list
SENT: Wednesday, October 10, 2012 12:37 PM
SUBJECT: Re: REFLECTOR: Flying Magazine - 2009 Velocity accident (Mark
Magee)
I have an old standard FG project that I purchased with the airframe
completed. The original builder placed a leading edge cuff on the wings to
help eliminate the deep stall. I've read good and bad concerning this
modification. I would like comments on this modification. Good, bad, should
it be removed, should I keep it. Let me know.
Sent from my iPad
On Oct 10, 2012, at 11:22 AM, "Laurence Coen" <[LINK:
mailto:lwcoen at hotmail.com] lwcoen at hotmail.com> wrote:
Dave,
It wasn't a thunderstorm, it was wake turbulence and he came down
inverted which is likely why it was fatal. All else is accurate.
Larry Coen
N136LC
FROM: [LINK: mailto:dtnelson at us.ibm.com] Dave T Nelson
SENT: Wednesday, October 10, 2012 6:42 AM
TO: [LINK: mailto:reflector at tvbf.org] reflector at tvbf.org
SUBJECT: Re: REFLECTOR: Flying Magazine - 2009 Velocity accident (Mark
Magee)
The author got other basic facts wrong. It wasn't Rutan that mounted an
EZ on the back of a truck to investigate deep stall... it was Danny
Maier, and it was a Velocity. Also, the one other fatal deep stall
mentioned in the article was a Velocity where the builder had modified
the fuel tanks by removing the rear wall of the tank and allowing the
fuel to go all the way back to the spar to gain more fuel capacity.
That, and the fact that he flew into a thunderstorm, caused the
accident.
Geez....
Dave
Dave T. Nelson
T/L 553-4327, Voice 507-253-4327, Fax 507-253-3648
Program Director, ISC ECAT NPI & Test Engineering
----- Forwarded by Dave T Nelson/Rochester/IBM on 10/10/2012 06:39 AM
-----
On Oct 9, 2012, at 8:59 PM, Scott Derrick <[LINK:
mailto:scott at tnstaafl.net] scott at tnstaafl.net> wrote:
There are mistruths, he states 3 prior accidents, two landing in the
ocean. He fails to mention one of those was intentional by the factory,
the test pilot elected to stay in the airplane, he had a parachute, and
soft landed in the ocean. That plane was flying the next day. He
states that any canard airplane can be deep stalled at 128K by either
aft cg or abrupt pullup! First half truth/Lie is that it takes a way aft
CG, since the redesign you need to be 2-3+ inches or more aft of aft CG
limit and get the airplane in a very odd attitude, which at 128 knots I
think thats probably not doable. That you can deep stall a V by doing
abrupt maneuvers is blatant speculation and I've never heard of anybody
doing it. I've made some pretty aggressive maneuvers and been in some
wild thunderstorm generated turbulence, by myself(aft CG) and never felt
any indication at all of a deep stall. And the accident plane hit
really hard! All three known deep stall accidents, one intentional, all
hit very softly, and hit flat. This accident turned over, that would not
be characteristic of a deep stall.
He took a few facts, dressed up a few assumptions, sugar coated a few
lies and just made shit up! I think he has a thing against canards and
is playing fast and loose with the facts to paint the V as inherently
dangerous.
Scott
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Flying Magazine - 2009 Velocity accident
From: Mark Magee [LINK: mailto:edjonesbrady at gmail.com]
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list [LINK:
mailto:reflector at tvbf.org]
Date: 10/09/2012 04:47 PM
Hi Scott,
Elaborate?
Mark B. Magee
M34XL
Sent from IPhone 4S
On Oct 9, 2012, at 5:32 PM, Scott Derrick <[LINK:
mailto:scott at tnstaafl.net] scott at tnstaafl.net> wrote:
You know I've always liked reading Garrison's articles. I now wonder if
most of them are as full of bullshit as this one? Probably so...
Scott
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: REFLECTOR: Flying Magazine - 2009 Velocity accident
From: Reiff Lorenz [LINK: mailto:Reiff at Lorenz.com]
To: [LINK: mailto:reflector at tvbf.org] reflector at tvbf.org [LINK:
mailto:reflector at tvbf.org]
Date: 10/09/2012 03:42 PM
This month's Flying magazine has an article (copy attached) about a
Velocity accident in 2009. The plane lost a prop blade and this author
believes the pilot mistook the violent shaking to be flutter, pulled
abruptly on the stick, put the plane into a deep stall, and had no way
to use engine power to break the stall.
I wasn't a Reflector member in 2009 so don't know any more than what is
in the article. Is there anything to learn from this apart from the
obvious? (Make sure your prop blades stay attached, but recognize the
symptoms if they don't, and fly the airplane.)
REIFF LORENZ, DAYTON, OH
Velocity XL-RG, 37% complete
Currently working on: Sanding stuff smooth.
THE [LINK:
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PS I'll be in the hangar from 7 – 9pm EDT tonight (Tuesday is
building night!)
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