REFLECTOR: Michaels Epoxy Pump or handpumps ?

Tue Jan 31 12:09:05 CST 2012

Good observations and collection of tips, Andy!

Bob

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From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
Behalf Of Andy Millin
Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 11:45 AM
To: 'Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list'
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Michaels Epoxy Pump or handpumps ?

Yes, you could use West System to build the whole plane.  The reason we
don't is that it costs more and even the slow hardener is must faster than
the EZ-84 we use.  When doing the larger layups the longer work time is
required.

If you get the fast hardener, you'll want to have everything in place within
45 minutes of initial mix.  For a larger layup that will require good prep.
If it is 80 degrees or more, you might have 30 minutes.  You'll want to
avoid larger batches as it is kicking harder and can exotherm on you.  I
have had batches of micro exotherm with the West.  I consider this to be the
nature of the beast, not really a downside.

I used it for most of the completion tasks and by then I was greatful for
the speed.  With West I was able to complete a series of 3 layups in the
same day.  That would have been 3 days minimum with EZ-84.

BTW, if you are doing fill work, you might want to look into West System
410, Microlight Faring Filler.  Use it like micro AND spot putty.  It
spreads much better.  It sands better.  It feathers out beautifully.  It
costs a more than micro, but . time vs. money.  A 5 oz container is
approximately a gallon by volume.  Make sure you work it well on a booger
board before you apply it; want the bubbles out (same with micro).

Another tip.  FWIW.  I stopped using sand paper for layup prep as well.  I
was directed to 3M maroon Scotchbrite pads.  Again, they cost more, but they
will get to the bottom of the weave almost immediately.  You'll get a great
scuff in a fraction of the time.  Buy the whole box at a premium auto paint
supply store.

Andy

==========================

Andy Millin

amillin at sbcglobal.net

From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
Behalf Of Patrick Sieders
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2012 5:04 PM
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Michaels Epoxy Pump or handpumps ?

Well I guess the consensus told me he story that I was leaning towards.
Andy's idea about switching to West Systems product is something that I am
going to research. I still have to turn the airplane over and lay down a
layer on the top strake and the main spar. Could I use the West systems for
that as well ? (before I reinvent the wheel ?)

Thanks all for the response. Sorry about the two emails, my computer crashed
while sending my first email and when reflector didn't send it back I
concluded that it was not received and resend it, finding out afterwards
Reflector had issues of its own.

gr. Patrick

From: Alex <mailto:velocity_pilot at verizon.net>  Balic 

Sent: Monday, January 30, 2012 12:05 PM

To: 'Velocity Aircraft <mailto:reflector at tvbf.org>  Owners and Builders
list' 

Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Michaels Epoxy Pump or handpumps ?

The Michaels unit is great when you need to mix a lot of epoxy at a time, or
when you are working on a lot of layups that you are always needing the
resin for- most of this work is early on in the building process. I used the
Michaels pump with good success when building the flying surfaces and
fuselage, but then it sat for a while, and got gummed up- I took it apart,
and cleaned it up, then used it a couple of times before it sat and got
gummed up again, so I just tossed it and started using a scale to measure
the resin for all of the occasional small jobs I had.

From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
Behalf Of John Dibble
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2012 8:42 AM
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Michaels Epoxy Pump or handpumps ?

I second that.  I've never used a pump.  I use a scale that measures to 0.01
gram.  I can mix as little as 5 grams with high precision for those really
little jobs. 

John 

Jack Prock wrote: 

Hi Patrick, I have the expensive Michaels pump and it works great when
moving a lot of epoxy through it, like when I was buildingmy wings and
canard. But, if you aren't using a lot of epoxy, the pump tends to get
gummed up.After I finished the big pieces, over time the epoxy tended to get
sludgy and hard to move through the pump.I spent more time cleaning it than
using it. If you only have small parts, just buy a good electronic scale and
use hand pumping to measure outthe ratio. This works fine and you won't
waste time with all that cleaning. My epoxy pump is now cleanedand empty and
sitting in storage, while I finish the rest of the plane. Jack 

----- Original Message -----

From: Patrick <mailto:pjsieders at comcast.net>  Sieders

To: reflector at tvbf.org

Sent: Friday, January 27, 2012 7:07 PM

Subject: REFLECTOR: Michaels Epoxy Pump or handpumps ?

Hello All, 

I would like some input into what epoxy pumps to buy. I know the difference,
my question is more about if it's worth it looking at the state of my
project. 

Some may remember that I took over Tom Tolton's XL5 Fg. Since the airplane
hull is pretty much done, I am looking at some smaller epoxy projects to
finish it up. 

So should I buy the more expensive Michaels ratio pump or could I suffice
with the handpumps ? 

Take a look at my project as it sits in my garage right now (
http://www.sieders.com/sieders/velocity/index.htm ) and I would love to hear
your opinion. 

Thanks, 

Patrick Sieders 

Nashville TN USA 

XL5-FG 

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