REFLECTOR: How to fuel up and live to tell aboutit.(LaurenceCoen)
Mark Magee
edjonesbrady at gmail.com
Sat Feb 4 20:00:25 CST 2012
Correct.
On Sat, Feb 4, 2012 at 6:10 PM, Ron Velocity XLFG <VelocityXL at fastmail.fm>wrote:
> I sorry I am now very confused if a ground to a plastic container is need
> and the plastic is no conductive what is
> the point. Seems to me this means as long as the tires are on the ground
> there should be no need for grounding.
> Which is not true. Contact with the fuel with a conductive material is
> required Right? So the aluminum Fuel line
> running from the tank to the engine Exhaust pipe to ground and you are
> fully grounded Right?
>
> Ron
>
> -----Original Message----- From: sbjknox
> Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 8:21 PM
>
> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: How to fuel up and live to tell
> aboutit.(LaurenceCoen)
>
> From below: "No laws of physics have been violated in the above. Please
> step away from your Ouija board and be safe."
> But is reads as if some are damaged or invented.
> ref:
> `
> http://www.fs.fed.us/eng/pubs/**pdfpubs/pdf95512323.pdf<http://www.fs.fed.us/eng/pubs/pdfpubs/pdf95512323.pdf>
>
> or from Australia,
>
> http://www.esdjournal.com/**static/Static_Fires.pdf<http://www.esdjournal.com/static/Static_Fires.pdf>
>
> and, "Let's also suppose that the planes fuel cap is removed and you get
> the
> gas can from the back of your pickup which happens to have a static charge.
> You attach the clamp and chain to the gas can so they now are carrying the
> static charge. The chain hits the filler ring and you got a big problem."
>
> or of you first drop the chain in the tank and then attach the clamp to the
> can, if there is a discharge it is at the clamp-can interface out in the
> open air.
>
> You do whatever you want... I'll fuel my airplane safely by ensuring that
> there is no static potential difference between the can and the fuel in the
> tank or filler hole or the Ouija board.
>
> Sid Knox
> Oklahoma
>
> Velocity 173 RG N199RS
> Starduster N666SK
> KR2 N24TC
> W7QJQ
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Laurence Coen" <lwcoen at hotmail.com>
> To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
> Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 3:42 PM
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: How to fuel up and live to tell about
> it.(LaurenceCoen)
>
>
> Karl,
>
> The fuel in the tank contains a distributed charge because it is a fluid.
> Since it is a non-conductor it does not present a problem. The antistatic
> mat is redundant and would have to be connected to ground to be effective.
> Since it will protect your paint, it might still be a good idea. Submerging
> the nozzle in the fuel has no effect. Sid came up with a device to connect
> a non-conducting plastic gas can to to the non-conducting gas in the tank.
> That is a solution in want of a problem. One more time......You CAN NOT
> ground a non-conductor. Lets suppose that it's a metal gas can that can be
> grounded. Let's also suppose that the planes fuel cap is removed and you
> get the gas can from the back of your pickup which happens to have a static
> charge. You attach the clamp and chain to the gas can so they now are
> carrying the static charge. The chain hits the filler ring and you got a
> big problem.
>
> The static electricity produced from fuel flowing into your tank is not a
> problem because it has nowhere to go so it remains static. Let me explain
> how you can set your plane on fire using this phenomena. Get a plastic gas
> can and a metal funnel and set it under a fuel drain so that when you open
> the drain gas flows into the funnel and fills the can. IF the fuel flows
> at
> 10 GPH it will take 30 minutes to fill a 5 gal can. Electrically speaking
> the metal funnel is suspended in space. The flowing fuel will transfer
> it's
> static charge to the funnel until it becomes high enough to ionize the air
> in contact with it. You've all seen this happen before. It's called
> lightning. In this it's called corona discharge. It's not spectacular
> like
> lightning but the resulting fire will be.
>
> No laws of physics have been violated in the above. Please step away from
> your Ouija board and be safe.
>
> Larry Coen
> N136LC
>
>
> From: Karl J. Warner
> Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2012 12:29 PM
> To: reflector at tvbf.org
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: How to fuel up and live to tell about it.
> (LaurenceCoen)
>
>
> Larry, I'm also concerned about static on the surface of the fuel itself
> and
> the additional frictional static charge created by the falling fuel. Your
> 2
> cents on this list summation would be appreciated:
>
>
> Fueling a composite airplane...
>
>
> 1.. Ground pump/truck Airplane onto exhaust or engine.
> 2.. Put antistatic mat around filler cap.
> 3.. Leave the gas cap on until you have the fuel filler nozzle in your
> other hand.
> 4.. Use free hand to open the gas cap. This puts the nozzle, you and the
> gas cap/filler ring all at ground potential before combustible vapor is
> available.
> 5.. Flowing gas produces additional static electricity so make sure the
> nozzle remains:
> a.. in contact with the filler ring AND
> b.. submersed in fuel during the fueling process if possible.
> 6.. Replace cap and latch before going to the next tank.
> 7.. Repeat.
> 8.. Unground airplane.
>
>
> Karl
> On Jan 31, 2012, at 2:32 PM, reflector-request at tvbf.org wrote:
>
>
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> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Reflector digest..."
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. How to fuel up and live to tell about it. (Laurence Coen)
> 2. P.S.: No gloves (Laurence Coen)
> 3. Re: Reflector down (Brian Michalk)
>
>
> From: "Laurence Coen" <lwcoen at hotmail.com>
>
> Date: January 31, 2012 2:15:07 PM EST
>
> To: "reflector16" <reflector at tvbf.org>
>
> Subject: REFLECTOR: How to fuel up and live to tell about it.
>
> Reply-To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
>
>
>
>
> All.
>
> It’s winter and the time for static electricity. It's also the time for
> fueling accidents. Last week in Kansas City someone totaled his Chevy
> pickup at the gas pump to say nothing of what he did to the canopy he was
> parked under. This was all caught in the station surveillance camera. The
> gentleman was sitting in his truck with the door open and the gas hose
> filling the tank. He then slid off the seat, turning himself into a 40
> thousand volt time bomb. He walked back and grabbed the fill nozzle.
> FOOM!
> Since fill nozzles have to be grounded by law and it was in contact with
> the
> all metal truck, this was not a grounding problem of the vehicle. If this
> guy had of touched anything metal as he slid of the seat this would not
> have
> happened.
>
> You can ground the metal stuff on a Velocity but you cannot, no matter how
> hard you try, ground your fuel tank wings or the gas in the tank because
> they are all non-conductors. The metal ring for the fuel cap is metal and
> can have a static charge if it is not wired to the ground of the plane and
> you attach the ground clip like you're suppose to.
>
> If you follow this technique it won't matter if it's grounded or not.
> Leave the gas cap in place until the plane is grounded and you have the
> fuel
> nozzle in your hand Now use your free hand to open the gas cap. This will
> guarantee that the nozzle, you and the gas cap/filler ring are all at
> ground
> potential before combustible vapor is available. Flowing gas will produce
> static electricity so make sure the nozzle remains in contact with the ring
> during fueling. Replace and latch the cap before going to the next tank.
> Repeat.
>
> Larry Coen
> N136LC
>
>
>
>
> From: "Laurence Coen" <lwcoen at hotmail.com>
>
> Date: January 31, 2012 2:25:48 PM EST
>
> To: "reflector16" <reflector at tvbf.org>
>
> Subject: REFLECTOR: P.S.: No gloves
>
> Reply-To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
>
>
>
>
> You can put your gloves back on after the nozzle is in the tank. And
> don't wander off and slide across your seat covers.
>
> Larry Coen
> N136LC
>
>
>
>
> From: Brian Michalk <michalk at awpi.com>
>
> Date: January 31, 2012 2:35:44 PM EST
>
> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
>
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Reflector down
>
> Reply-To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
>
>
>
>
> Juanita bought an industrial sewing machine off CraigsList, and made some
> very nice leather seats out of leather that someone here on the Reflector
> arranged a group buy for.
> They are pretty heavy with confor-foam, but are very comfortable.
>
> The rest is a combination of carpet from Wal-Mart, I think, and some
> fabric she bought.
>
> For now, it looks pretty good, and we've talked about redoing it in a few
> years. I just happened to take a shot of the back seats. I'll try to get
> some better pictures this weekend.
>
> <jfcbdbdf.jpg>
>
> On 1/30/2012 6:56 PM, Douglas Holub wrote:
> Hi Brian,
>
> I'm about to put my interior in after flying the plane for about 135
> hours. We had the seats and the glare shield upholstered before we started
> flying, so now we just need carpet, side panels, and the headliner. My
> vanity panel is varnished wood.
>
> A few years ago Scott Baker suggested that I could get a good quality,
> relatively inexpensive interior by hiring a local hot rodders custom
> interiors shop, so I think that's what I'm going to do. What did you do?
> Got
> any pictures?
>
> Doug Holub
> 2009 Standard FG w/ electric nose lift
> ----- Original Message ----- From: Brian Michalk
> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
> Sent: Monday, January 30, 2012 5:31 PM
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Reflector down
>
>
> You are welcome.
>
> My project is dangerously close to flying again.
> We just put in the interior, and wow, that makes a big difference.
> Unlike you, we are planning to paint after flying the plane for a while.
> This weekend I primered the wings, and wow, that makes a big difference
> too.
>
> I've got some details to finish for the annual, like new batteries and
> such, but most of the remaining items are administrative, like my medical,
> BFR, getting my repairmans certificate so I can sign off the annual, and
> also a new weight and balance.
>
> I still need to do engine tuning as well. Then it's time for taxi
> testing.
>
> On 1/29/2012 11:39 PM, nmflyer1 at aol.com wrote:
> Brian,
>
>
> Yet another "thank you" for you work done and ongoing.
>
>
> How's the project?
>
>
> Kurt
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brian Michalk <michalk at awpi.com>
> To: Laurence Coen <lwcoen at hotmail.com>
> Cc: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
> Sent: Sun, Jan 29, 2012 7:49 pm
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Reflector down
>
>
> Laurence, and Reflector:
>
> I've been having issues with the email this week after I moved the
> internal network addressing scheme. It appears to be related to DNS taking
> longer than previously, which backs up the mail server, because it must
> then
> keep connections open for longer. If it weren't for the high spam volume,
> my server wouldn't have anything to do.
>
> I should have the problem resolved this weekend.
>
> On 1/27/2012 2:36 PM, Laurence Coen wrote:
> Brian,
>
> Messages are getting to the archives but not being posted to the
> subscribers. I posted a reply to a Chris Barber question on 1/23/2012 that
> failed to echo on the reflector. The email from Chris is the last
> Reflector
> message that I have seen. I checked my profile and it looks fine. The
> archives now contain more messages wondering where the Reflector went.
>
> Larry Coen
> N136LC
>
>
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