REFLECTOR: Reflector Digest, Vol 89, Issue 112
Terrence Miles
terrence_miles at hotmail.com
Sun Aug 26 13:06:40 CDT 2012
Geoff,
I wish I had some more ideas. These are only "what else might it be" ideas
on my part. Keep your head around simple fixes over digging deeper into
complicated reconstruction of the basic platform. Be sure you have
considered all the simple stuff first. Some of this, I know was already
suggested. I am just re-enforcing the suggestions.
Do you have a 2nd needle/ball device to eliminate any yaw factors? I would
scotch tape up a yaw string in the middle on your front windshield and see
what it is telling you, just to eliminate that axis as a contributor. Use
some dark colored darning yarn. Check it for how it is supposed to behave.
Displace a rudder alone. Make a rudder and aileron displaced heading
change. Try a turn with only aileron. See what it does. Do this in both
directions and different speeds.
Here is another idea: Is the gap between the wing and the ailerons the
exactly the same along the full width and depth and equal on both wings?
Look at all three sides where aileron and wing are adjacent. Take a
straight edge and see if you have any convex or concave areas on either
aileron on both upper and lower surfaces of the control itself, and to be
sure they are fully aligned vertically and horizontally. How about
trailing edge thickness? Could some stray air molecules be sucking up your
high aileron or pushing down your low one.and how?
Measure the distance from canard tip to wing tip and compare left side to
right side. This is not a player, but do it anyway, and know we are all
right there with you seeking the best answer for you.I think that's probably
the real reason that I writing.
Just some ideas.
Terry
From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
Behalf Of Geoff Gerhardt
Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2012 6:19 PM
To: Jean Prudhomme; Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Reflector Digest, Vol 89, Issue 112
Jean,
Are you saying that you torqued the wing by only putting a washer in one
bolt location? Because its a roll issue, not a yaw issue, I'm assuming I
should be looking for a incidence angle difference between them. I thought
the best way to do this would be to use a digital inclinometer and compare
the angles of the trailing edges of the wings where there's a nice flat
surface.
Thanks for your help.
Geoff
On Sat, Aug 25, 2012 at 6:02 PM, Jean Prudhomme <prudhommejean at yahoo.com>
wrote:
As builder of several Velocity it,s happen a couple of time and i had to put
washer between spars at upper or lower bolt position to twist the wing and
finally have the correction done
JEAN PRUDHOMME
Sales Associate
CANADA REALTY INC
POMPANO BEACH FLORIDA
Tel:754-366-1780
Toll free: 866-439-5011
http://jeanprudhomme.southfloridamls.com/
From: "reflector-request at tvbf.org" <reflector-request at tvbf.org>
To: reflector at tvbf.org
Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2012 4:36 PM
Subject: Reflector Digest, Vol 89, Issue 112
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: 4th test flight - roll tendency persists (steve korney)
2. Navy Man (Mark Magee)
3. Re: 4th test flight - roll tendency persists (Richard J. Gentil)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2012 20:15:03 +0000
From: steve korney <s_korney at hotmail.com>
To: Reflector Reflector <reflector at tvbf.org>
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: 4th test flight - roll tendency persists
Message-ID: <SNT127-W21BE981B00B795ABE7E4B3E7BC0 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
Geoff...
The ailerons are free floating... They should set themselves by aerodynamic
forces of airflow...When you let go of the stick, the ailerons should take a
position on their own and should be the same on both sides no matter what
the aircraft is doing...
Steve
From: lwcoen at hotmail.com
To: geoff.gerhardt at gmail.com; reflector at tvbf.org
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2012 12:39:04 -0500
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: 4th test flight - roll tendency persists
Geoff,
>From what you are describing it sounds like the ailerons are
being deflected aerodynamically. You might want to look at the bottom
forward edge of the left aileron to see if it extends below the lower
surface of
the wing when it?s held in the neutral position. Since the ailerons are
hinged at the top, any increase of drag on the left compared to the right
would
cause the effect you're seeing.
Larry Coen
N136LC
From: Geoff Gerhardt
Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2012 6:37 AM
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: 4th test flight - roll tendency
persists
Alex/Steve,
That was my first thought, too, but in order to get it to fly level,
pressure on the stick is needed to keep the ailerons to neutral. If I let
the stick go, the left aileron wants to come up, right goes down. If it
were a wing shimming issue, I'd expect that the ailerons would need to be
pushed
into a non-neutral position to counteract the effect of improperly aligned
wings.
Before flying the plane, my ailerons were positioned so that the trailing
edges were level with the wings. After the third flight when I noticed
this left roll tendency, I adjusted them so they drooped ~1/8". I think it
helped a little, but did not eliminate the left roll tendency.
Geoff
On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 10:12 PM, Alex Balic <velocity_pilot at verizon.net>
wrote:
Possibly
the wings need shimming
From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
Behalf Of Geoff
Gerhardt
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2012 7:38 PM
To:
Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
Subject: REFLECTOR: 4th test flight - roll tendency
persists
Guys,
I went on my fourth test flight this afternoon. Still
have butterflies before the flight and check things over like I have OCD
(yes,
the canard bolts are still there, for the fourth time...).
Dealing with a few issues now that I've left the pattern
and brought it up to speed. I noticed on the third flight that it wants
to roll to the left. This is not a yaw (ball's in the center), but a
definite roll that requires right pressure on the stick to fly level at
140kts
(more pressure for higher speed). Aileron trim isn't enough to take it
out. On that third flight, when I was flying level at 140ks by using
right stick pressure, when I looked back I could see that the trailing
edges
of both ailerons were a little higher than the wing. So, before the
fourth flight, I drooped both down so they were ~1/8" below the wing (they
were level before at rest), but this did not have much effect on the roll
tendency (although the ailerons were level or drooping at speed). It
definitely seems to be an aileron issue. When I'm flying level (using
right stick pressure), the ailerons seem to be in an equal position.
Letting the stick go, the right aileron comes up, left down and it
rolls. Any other ideas on things to check?
Slow flight went very well, nice control down to 60kts.
Easy 180 turn, then back the other way holding
altitude.
Geoff
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Message: 2
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2012 15:16:58 -0500
From: Mark Magee <edjonesbrady at gmail.com>
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
Subject: REFLECTOR: Navy Man
Message-ID: <5A62CBAF-9870-445E-9B44-FC70374835F4 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
You guys know a Navy Man was the first one to step foot on the moon?
No glass flight decks back then.
An era has ended.
Mark B. Magee
N34XL
Sent from IPhone 4
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2012 16:35:58 -0400
From: "Richard J. Gentil" <richard at naples-air-center.com>
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: 4th test flight - roll tendency persists
Message-ID:
<F3674ACC-E17A-4F9C-9A53-0B42BE2FB26B at naples-air-center.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Geoff,
I would look to the incident angle of your wings, the faster you go, the
pronounced the turning tendency will be.
Richard
Sent from my iPhone 4 Classic
On Aug 25, 2012, at 4:15 PM, steve korney <s_korney at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Geoff...
>
> The ailerons are free floating... They should set themselves by
aerodynamic forces of airflow...When you let go of the stick, the ailerons
should take a position on their own and should be the same on both sides no
matter what the aircraft is doing...
>
>
>
> Steve
>
> From: lwcoen at hotmail.com
> To: geoff.gerhardt at gmail.com; reflector at tvbf.org
> Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2012 12:39:04 -0500
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: 4th test flight - roll tendency persists
>
> Geoff,
>
> From what you are describing it sounds like the ailerons are being
deflected aerodynamically. You might want to look at the bottom forward
edge of the left aileron to see if it extends below the lower surface of the
wing when it?s held in the neutral position. Since the ailerons are hinged
at the top, any increase of drag on the left compared to the right would
cause the effect you're seeing.
>
> Larry Coen
> N136LC
>
> From: Geoff Gerhardt
> Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2012 6:37 AM
> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: 4th test flight - roll tendency persists
>
> Alex/Steve,
>
> That was my first thought, too, but in order to get it to fly level,
pressure on the stick is needed to keep the ailerons to neutral. If I let
the stick go, the left aileron wants to come up, right goes down. If it
were a wing shimming issue, I'd expect that the ailerons would need to be
pushed into a non-neutral position to counteract the effect of improperly
aligned wings.
>
> Before flying the plane, my ailerons were positioned so that the trailing
edges were level with the wings. After the third flight when I noticed this
left roll tendency, I adjusted them so they drooped ~1/8". I think it
helped a little, but did not eliminate the left roll tendency.
>
> Geoff
>
> On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 10:12 PM, Alex Balic <velocity_pilot at verizon.net>
wrote:
> Possibly the wings need shimming
>
>
>
> From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
Behalf Of Geoff Gerhardt
> Sent: Friday, August 24, 2012 7:38 PM
> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
>
>
> Subject: REFLECTOR: 4th test flight - roll tendency persists
>
>
>
> Guys,
>
>
>
> I went on my fourth test flight this afternoon. Still have butterflies
before the flight and check things over like I have OCD (yes, the canard
bolts are still there, for the fourth time...).
>
>
>
> Dealing with a few issues now that I've left the pattern and brought it up
to speed. I noticed on the third flight that it wants to roll to the left.
This is not a yaw (ball's in the center), but a definite roll that
requires right pressure on the stick to fly level at 140kts (more pressure
for higher speed). Aileron trim isn't enough to take it out. On that third
flight, when I was flying level at 140ks by using right stick pressure, when
I looked back I could see that the trailing edges of both ailerons were a
little higher than the wing. So, before the fourth flight, I drooped
both down so they were ~1/8" below the wing (they were level before at
rest), but this did not have much effect on the roll tendency (although the
ailerons were level or drooping at speed). It definitely seems to be an
aileron issue. When I'm flying level (using right stick pressure), the
ailerons seem to be in an equal position. Letting the stick go, the right
aileron comes up, l!
eft down and it rolls. Any other ideas on things to check?
>
>
>
> Slow flight went very well, nice control down to 60kts. Easy 180 turn,
then back the other way holding altitude.
>
>
>
> Geoff
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> To change your email address, visit
http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>
> Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
> Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
> _______________________________________________ To change your email
address, visit http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector Visit the
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archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail Check old archives:
http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
> _______________________________________________
> To change your email address, visit
http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>
> Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
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