REFLECTOR: 4th test flight

Sat Aug 25 12:59:27 CDT 2012

Check the wing incidence on both side by measuring the height from the
ground for various points on the wings.  Hard to do due to all the round
surfaces and lack of any consistent way to ensure that everything on the
right is the same as on the left.  May need to shim one wing to change
incidence.    Double check aileron travel symmetry, but this isn't likely
the culprit as you cant even trim for no roll.  

David Ullman
N444DX
President EAA 292
541-754-3609
david at davidullman.com

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Subject: Reflector Digest, Vol 89, Issue 110

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Today's Topics:

   1.  4th test flight - roll tendency persists (Geoff Gerhardt)
   2. Re:  4th test flight - roll tendency persists (Alex Balic)
   3. Re:  O-360 prop extension (Alex Balic)
   4. Re:  4th test flight - roll tendency persists (Geoff Gerhardt)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2012 20:38:11 -0400
From: Geoff Gerhardt <geoff.gerhardt at gmail.com>
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
Subject: REFLECTOR: 4th test flight - roll tendency persists
Message-ID:
	<CAHd2h4KzVAn4qVHyUiJU+HL6L8hWksra_=-DePuw2tjNQEikHA at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Guys,

I went on my fourth test flight this afternoon.  Still have butterflies
before the flight and check things over like I have OCD (yes, the canard
bolts are still there, for the fourth time...).

Dealing with a few issues now that I've left the pattern and brought it up
to speed.  I noticed on the third flight that it wants to roll to the left.
 This is not a yaw (ball's in the center), but a definite roll that
requires right pressure on the stick to fly level at 140kts (more pressure
for higher speed).  Aileron trim isn't enough to take it out.  On that
third flight, when I was flying level at 140ks by using right stick
pressure, when I looked back I could see that the trailing edges of both
ailerons were a little higher than the wing.  So, before the fourth flight,
I drooped both down so they were ~1/8" below the wing (they were level
before at rest), but this did not have much effect on the roll tendency
(although the ailerons were level or drooping at speed).  It definitely
seems to be an aileron issue.  When I'm flying level (using right stick
pressure), the ailerons seem to be in an equal position.  Letting the stick
go, the right aileron comes up, left down and it rolls.  Any other ideas on
things to check?

Slow flight went very well, nice control down to 60kts.  Easy 180 turn,
then back the other way holding altitude.

Geoff
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Message: 2
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2012 21:12:06 -0500
From: "Alex Balic" <velocity_pilot at verizon.net>
To: <geoff.gerhardt at gmail.com>, "'Velocity Aircraft Owners and
	Builders list'" <reflector at tvbf.org>
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: 4th test flight - roll tendency persists
Message-ID: <001401cd8267$071b6290$155227b0$@net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Possibly the wings need shimming

From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
Behalf Of Geoff Gerhardt
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2012 7:38 PM
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
Subject: REFLECTOR: 4th test flight - roll tendency persists

Guys,

I went on my fourth test flight this afternoon.  Still have butterflies
before the flight and check things over like I have OCD (yes, the canard
bolts are still there, for the fourth time...).  

Dealing with a few issues now that I've left the pattern and brought it up
to speed.  I noticed on the third flight that it wants to roll to the left.
This is not a yaw (ball's in the center), but a definite roll that requires
right pressure on the stick to fly level at 140kts (more pressure for higher
speed).  Aileron trim isn't enough to take it out.  On that third flight,
when I was flying level at 140ks by using right stick pressure, when I
looked back I could see that the trailing edges of both ailerons were a
little higher than the wing.  So, before the fourth flight, I drooped both
down so they were ~1/8" below the wing (they were level before at rest), but
this did not have much effect on the roll tendency (although the ailerons
were level or drooping at speed).  It definitely seems to be an aileron
issue.  When I'm flying level (using right stick pressure), the ailerons
seem to be in an equal position.  Letting the stick go, the right aileron
comes up, left down and it rolls.  Any other ideas on things to check?

Slow flight went very well, nice control down to 60kts.  Easy 180 turn, then
back the other way holding altitude.

Geoff

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Message: 3
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2012 21:24:22 -0500
From: "Alex Balic" <velocity_pilot at verizon.net>
To: "'Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list'"
	<reflector at tvbf.org>
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: O-360 prop extension
Message-ID: <002901cd8268$be58c230$3b0a4690$@net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

I remember it being a Sabre, but I do not recall that with certainty, and
they don't ID their products, so I won't make the claim, but in any case the
workmanship is very good. I will check the dims on the flanges this weekend
and let you know

-----Original Message-----
From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
Behalf Of none
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2012 9:44 AM
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: O-360 prop extension

Thanks for the pics. It appears to be a Saber. The prop side flange is 7" in
diameter, with the engine side flange being 6" in diameter, correct?  Let me
know. 

Thanks. 

Sent from my iPad

On Aug 24, 2012, at 8:42 AM, "Alex Balic" <velocity_pilot at verizon.net>
wrote:

> Here is a picture- I can get the measurements for the bolt pattern 
> this
> weekend- been busy at work, and the unit is out at the hangar....
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] 
> On Behalf Of none
> Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2012 10:12 AM
> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: O-360 prop extension
> 
> Any pictures yet?
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> On Aug 21, 2012, at 11:15 PM, "Alex Balic" 
> <velocity_pilot at verizon.net>
> wrote:
> 
>> How about $250- I can take some pictures for you if you are 
>> interested, just let me know-
>> 
>> Alex
>> Velocity_pilot at verizon.net
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org]
>> On Behalf Of none
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2012 11:03 PM
>> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
>> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: O-360 prop extension
>> 
>> How much?
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>> On Aug 21, 2012, at 10:54 PM, "Alex Balic" 
>> <velocity_pilot at verizon.net>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> I have a 6" unit I can sell if you need one just let me know
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org]
>>> On Behalf Of none
>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2012 4:39 PM
>>> To: reflector at tvbf.org
>>> Subject: REFLECTOR: O-360 prop extension
>>> 
>>> Any one have a pic of the prop extension that they used? Please send.
>>> Thanks. 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPad
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> 
> _______________________________________________
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------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2012 07:37:37 -0400
From: Geoff Gerhardt <geoff.gerhardt at gmail.com>
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: 4th test flight - roll tendency persists
Message-ID:
	<CAHd2h4Kw3c2_ZN2HgTZJvXhRmeePwDbczCr7hc+9TGYzYgF5NA at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Alex/Steve,

That was my first thought, too, but in order to get it to fly level,
pressure on the stick is needed to keep the ailerons to neutral.  If I let
the stick go, the left aileron wants to come up, right goes down.  If it
were a wing shimming issue, I'd expect that the ailerons would need to be
pushed into a non-neutral position to counteract the effect of improperly
aligned wings.

Before flying the plane, my ailerons were positioned so that the trailing
edges were level with the wings.  After the third flight when I noticed
this left roll tendency, I adjusted them so they drooped ~1/8".  I think it
helped a little, but did not eliminate the left roll tendency.

Geoff

On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 10:12 PM, Alex Balic
<velocity_pilot at verizon.net>wrote:

> Possibly the wings need shimming****
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] *On
> Behalf Of *Geoff Gerhardt
> *Sent:* Friday, August 24, 2012 7:38 PM
> *To:* Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
>
> *Subject:* REFLECTOR: 4th test flight - roll tendency persists****
>
> ** **
>
> Guys,****
>
> ** **
>
> I went on my fourth test flight this afternoon.  Still have butterflies
> before the flight and check things over like I have OCD (yes, the canard
> bolts are still there, for the fourth time...).  ****
>
> ** **
>
> Dealing with a few issues now that I've left the pattern and brought it up
> to speed.  I noticed on the third flight that it wants to roll to the
left.
>  This is not a yaw (ball's in the center), but a definite roll that
> requires right pressure on the stick to fly level at 140kts (more pressure
> for higher speed).  Aileron trim isn't enough to take it out.  On that
> third flight, when I was flying level at 140ks by using right stick
> pressure, when I looked back I could see that the trailing edges of both
> ailerons were a little higher than the wing.  So, before the fourth
flight,
> I drooped both down so they were ~1/8" below the wing (they were level
> before at rest), but this did not have much effect on the roll tendency
> (although the ailerons were level or drooping at speed).  It definitely
> seems to be an aileron issue.  When I'm flying level (using right stick
> pressure), the ailerons seem to be in an equal position.  Letting the
stick
> go, the right aileron comes up, left down and it rolls.  Any other ideas
on
> things to check?****
>
> ** **
>
> Slow flight went very well, nice control down to 60kts.  Easy 180 turn,
> then back the other way holding altitude.****
>
> ** **
>
> Geoff****
>
> ** **
>
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