No subject
Mon May 30 12:23:25 CDT 2011
thirty minutes after landing.
The engine will turn to it's first compression stroke then stop. After =
three or four try's I'll just have to
wait thirty minutes, then the engine will turnover and start within one =
or two power stroke/s.
This is annoying if you just want to make a quick fuel stop.=20
I have replaced the Concord 35x with an Odyssey PC1200MJT 40AH battery =
1200 Amp. starting current
with the same result. I have placed another Odyssey 960 battery behind =
the rear left seat, and wired it
so it parallels the front battery when the starter is engaged, still =
same problem. A year or so ago, some
one on the reflector suggested replacing the starter with a ford part =
number. I did that, still same problem.
The plane was originally wired with #2 wire, all connectors were power =
crimped, the connectors to and
from the contractors are cleaned, treated and re tightened at each =
annual. I realize that the Franklin has
10.5:1 compression and when hot, can actually be slightly more, but my =
BMW M5 engine is also 10.5:1
compression and the same battery spins the engine very fast hot or cold. =
Could the problem be that the
starter is being heat soaked, which reduces it's efficiency? Is anyone =
else experiencing this problem?
BTW: I tried a Skytek starter which broke on the first start. it went =
into the garbage.=20
--=20
Mike W.
1997 Velocity Elite RG
Franklin /IVO Electric CS
Dual GRT EFIS HX Synthetic Vision
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--=20
Mike W.
1997 Velocity Elite RG
Franklin /IVO Electric CS
Dual GRT EFIS HX Synthetic Vision
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
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_______________________________________________
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Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
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<BODY style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 10px; PADDING-RIGHT: 10px; PADDING-TOP: =
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topMargin=3D0 bgColor=3Dwhite=20
vLink=3Dpurple CanvasTabStop=3D"true" name=3D"Compose message area">
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Rene',</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I have three ram air scoops on the lower =
cowling. Two=20
armpit and one belly. The armpit scoops are plumbed to the split =
plenum on=20
the top of the engine. without the belly scoop cool air would pass =
over=20
the cylinders and exhaust manifold and fill the cowl with hot air that =
would=20
then exit the rear of the cowl. Good for the cylinders and bad for =
everything else aft of the firewall. The belly scoop hides the =
carburetor=20
air box and supplies cool air for the fuel pump, alternator, magnetos,=20
gascolator, ect. The oil pan on the Franklin is fined cast =
aluminum (heat=20
exchanger) and also wants cool air. Every installation I am =
familiar with=20
has a positive pressure in the cowl, not a vacuum. I too have a =
"wimpy"=20
scoop for engine air but it is hidden by the cooling scoop. The =
belly=20
scoop is extended away from the cowl to move it out of the barrier=20
layer.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I hope this clears things up for you. If you =
have any=20
more questions just jump back in.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Larry Coen</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>N136LC</FONT></DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Tahoma">
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<DIV style=3D"font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A=20
title=3D"mailto:dugasd at bellsouth.net CTRL + Click to follow link"=20
href=3D"mailto:dugasd at bellsouth.net">Rene Dugas</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, June 01, 2011 5:46 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A=20
title=3D"mailto:reflector at tvbf.org CTRL + Click to follow link"=20
href=3D"mailto:reflector at tvbf.org">'Velocity Aircraft Owners and =
Builders=20
list'</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: REFLECTOR: Franklin Will not turnover when=20
hot</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=3DWordSection1>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: =
11pt">Larry,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: =
11pt">I=20
may not be understanding this note but if you extended the scoop is =
there just=20
more space or are you blowing air from the scoop over the pan and =
accessory=20
case. This cooling air is coming from where?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: =
11pt">If=20
it opens under the engine, I do not see how you obtain the cowl vacuum =
we all=20
want for downdraft cooling. I must be missing something. =
Help? =20
I like the scoop. Mine is whimpy in comparison so please be gentle =
but I=20
get 1=94 of increased manifold pressure. What do you do with all =
that=20
air?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: =
11pt">Rene=92<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: =
11pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; =
PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: =
#b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<P class=3DMsoNormal><B><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">=20
reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] <B>On =
Behalf Of=20
</B>Laurence Coen<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, May 27, 2011 1:13 =
PM<BR><B>To:</B>=20
Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: =
REFLECTOR:=20
Franklin Will not turnover when hot<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Mike &=20
WJ,</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">My brother made two =
starter=20
nose pieces, the first of which is shown in the photos. The recess =
where=20
the mounting bolts go are machined on the wrong side. Number two =
is in=20
use. I think that your hot start problems are related to heat =
soaking the=20
starter motor and the reason for the third picture. My belly scoop =
is=20
extended down 1" to increase air flow over the oil sump and the =
accessory=20
case. I wasn't so concerned about the starter but the alternator =
getting=20
too hot. I have #2 wire and never a hot start problem. A =
plenum=20
mounted blast tube for the starter might be the=20
solution.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Mike. You may =
be able to=20
use my "spare" nose piece if you trim off the mounting ears and add an =
"L"=20
shaped bracket to clamp the starter in place. If you want it email =
me off=20
reflector with your address and I'll send it to =
you.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Larry=20
Coen</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">N136LC</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">P.S.: My brother is =
retired and=20
no longer has access to a machine shop.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P style=3D"BACKGROUND: whitesmoke" class=3DMsoNormal><B><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A=20
title=3D"mailto:mikewatsspg at gmail.com CTRL + Click to follow link"=20
href=3D"mailto:mikewatsspg at gmail.com">Michael Watson</A>=20
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style=3D"BACKGROUND: whitesmoke" class=3DMsoNormal><B><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">Sent:</SPAN></B><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Sunday, =
May 22,=20
2011 5:13 PM<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style=3D"BACKGROUND: whitesmoke" class=3DMsoNormal><B><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">To:</SPAN></B><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A=20
title=3D"mailto:reflector at tvbf.org CTRL + Click to follow link"=20
href=3D"mailto:reflector at tvbf.org">Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders =
list</A>=20
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style=3D"BACKGROUND: whitesmoke" class=3DMsoNormal><B><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">Subject:</SPAN></B><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Re: =
REFLECTOR:=20
Franklin Will not turnover when =
hot<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P></DIV>
<P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3DMsoNormal>Larry,<BR><BR>Mine =
came with the=20
same starter and adapter plate. I replaced the original starter with a =
skytex=20
and then a ford (NAPA 2446115),<BR>but still the same problem. I have =
never had=20
a problem with adapter plate, but you are right, it is poorly made and=20
is<BR>prone to leak oil back into the starter solenoid. Would your =
brother=20
consider making one for me? PM me if he can.<BR><BR> =
<o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal>On Sun, May 22, 2011 at 3:13 PM, Laurence Coen =
<<A=20
href=3D"mailto:lwcoen at hotmail.com">lwcoen at hotmail.com</A>>=20
wrote:<o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV name=3D"Compose message area">
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Mike,</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">My Franklin came =
with a Honda=20
Civic starter with a very poorly made, welded-up adapter plate. =
Luckily my=20
brother was a tool and die maker and produced an adapter of my design =
from an=20
aluminum billet. The battery is a 55 AHR Optima deep =
discharge with=20
#2 wire. Never a starting problem.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Larry=20
Coen</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">N136LC</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P style=3D"BACKGROUND: whitesmoke" class=3DMsoNormal><B><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A=20
title=3Dmikewatsspg at gmail.com href=3D"mailto:mikewatsspg at gmail.com"=20
target=3D_blank>Michael Watson</A> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style=3D"BACKGROUND: whitesmoke" class=3DMsoNormal><B><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">Sent:</SPAN></B><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> =
Wednesday, May 18,=20
2011 3:38 PM<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style=3D"BACKGROUND: whitesmoke" class=3DMsoNormal><B><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">To:</SPAN></B><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A=20
title=3Dreflector at tvbf.org href=3D"mailto:reflector at tvbf.org"=20
target=3D_blank>Reflector</A> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style=3D"BACKGROUND: whitesmoke" class=3DMsoNormal><B><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">Subject:</SPAN></B><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> =
REFLECTOR: Franklin=20
Will not turnover when hot<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P></DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal>To all Franklin powered Velocity =
owners.<BR><BR>From new, I=20
have always had a problem starting the engine within ten to thirty =
minutes after=20
landing.<BR>The engine will turn to it's first compression stroke then =
stop.=20
After three or four try's I'll just have to<BR>wait thirty minutes, then =
the=20
engine will turnover and start within one or two power stroke/s.<BR>This =
is=20
annoying if you just want to make a quick fuel stop. <BR =
clear=3Dall><BR>I have=20
replaced the Concord 35x with an Odyssey PC1200MJT 40AH battery 1200 =
Amp.=20
starting current<BR>with the same result. I have placed another =
Odyssey=20
960 battery behind the rear left seat, and wired it<BR>so it parallels =
the front=20
battery when the starter is engaged, still same problem. A year or so =
ago,=20
some<BR>one on the reflector suggested replacing the starter with a ford =
part=20
number. I did that, still same problem.<BR><BR>The plane was originally =
wired=20
with #2 wire, all connectors were power crimped, the connectors to =
and<BR>from=20
the contractors are cleaned, treated and re tightened at each annual. I =
realize=20
that the Franklin has<BR>10.5:1 compression and when hot, can actually =
be=20
slightly more, but my BMW M5 engine is also 10.5:1<BR>compression and =
the same=20
battery spins the engine very fast hot or cold. Could the problem be =
that=20
the<BR>starter is being heat soaked, which reduces it's =
efficiency? Is=20
anyone else experiencing this problem?<BR><BR>BTW: I tried a =
Skytek=20
starter which broke on the first start. it went into the garbage. <BR>-- =
<BR>Mike W.<BR>1997 Velocity Elite RG<BR>Franklin /IVO Electric =
CS<BR>Dual GRT=20
EFIS HX Synthetic Vision<o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter>
<HR align=3Dcenter SIZE=3D2 width=3D"100%">
</DIV>
<P =
class=3DMsoNormal>_______________________________________________<BR>To =
change=20
your email address, visit <A=20
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target=3D_blank>http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector</A><BR><BR=
>Visit=20
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target=3D_blank>www.tvbf.org/gallery</A><BR>user:pw =3D =
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<P =
class=3DMsoNormal><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>=
To=20
change your email address, visit <A=20
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target=3D_blank>http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector</A><BR><BR=
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:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><BR><BR clear=3Dall><BR>-- <BR>Mike W.<BR>1997 =
Velocity Elite=20
RG<BR>Franklin /IVO Electric CS<BR>Dual GRT EFIS HX Synthetic=20
Vision<o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter>
<HR align=3Dcenter SIZE=3D2 width=3D"100%">
</DIV>
<P =
class=3DMsoNormal>_______________________________________________<BR>To =
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archives:=20
www.tvbf.org/pipermail<BR>Check old archives:=20
http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<P>
<HR>
<P></P>_______________________________________________<BR>To change your =
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