REFLECTOR: IFR training
Rene Dugas
dugasd at bellsouth.net
Wed Mar 9 18:29:41 CST 2011
Thanks for your input Terry. I agree on all points. My American Flyers
ticket got me intense system training without interruptions that allowed
this busy businessman Physician access to training I was unable to schedule
at my airport. I did not want piecemeal training and I wanted Intense
programmed training without holes. I'm not saying it was perfect but it was
adequate. I also did much of what you described. My CFII is also a
Velocity enthusiast and ATP and friend making my training stressful but
great fun. Practice! We all get rusty. I do overnight.
Rene'
From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
Behalf Of Terry Miles
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 12:13 PM
To: reflector at tvbf.org
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: IFR training
Scott, and everyone,
These are some great ideas. Let me add a couple. I know we are all
different. So this is my 2 cents, and I also realize this thread has to do
with getting the ticket, and less about transition into your airplane. I
would like to make the distinction between legal methods to get a license
and safe ops in IMC. If you have the time, then an in-residence,
concentrated, professional operation (ehrrr-license mill some of them w/ a
big question bank) that has an in-the-can program like Rene attended is a
good way to get legal. I think I do that myself, if I had it to do over, so
you can get the licensing issue out of the way, and have some great notes
and procedures and much more.
Next I would take those new skills and sit long and hard in your own cockpit
and come up with an instrument procedure pre-take off/top of descent flow
for IMC departure and IMC arrival, and do it over and over and over in the
airplane and then a bunch of times in front of a cardboard mock up of your
panel and simultaneously control Velo in MS Flight Sim 2004 on autopilot so
you are free to concentrate on procedure. Only you can do this. When you
have that cold, over several nights a week for several weeks, invite your
CFII for a cup of coffee and do a demo...again with the microsoft airplane
on autopilot...this is procedural practice.
Next step is go flying with that same CFII and see how you do, so he can be
up on what you intended to accomplish--not that you just didn't bust
minimums.
Unless you are in your cockpit with your procedures, I would suggest that
successful completion of course of study and a ticket in your wallet is more
like a legal step. To operate smoothly and safely in IMC, and have all the
muscle memory to know instinctively what's needed in the soup in front of
your panel, is another task. Have a plan for both. Or as some one once
wrote: "In my head, I can play a perfect game of tennis."
I will add an aside note here: I know of a local flight school with schools
airplanes that are not GPS, so they are teaching VOR and ADF stuff. Do not
accept that, if you plan to operate with a WAAS GPS panel go get appropriate
training.
Terry
_____
From: scottb33333 at gmail.com
To: reflector at tvbf.org
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 14:03:00 -0500
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: IFR training
While some instrument rating candidates elect to spend all of the 40-hours
of actual or simulated instrument time with a CFI-I, this is not necessary.
A quick summary of the aeronautica experience needed to take the Instrument
rating examination are:
* 50-hours PIC Cross Country time (not necessarily simulate instrument
time, these hours can be VFR)
* 40-hours of actual or simulated (i.e. hood) instrument time
* At least 15-hours of dual flight instruction from a CFI-I
* At least 3-hours of which are spent with your CFI-I in test preparation
within 60-days of taking the examination
* IFR cross country flight (actual, with a CFI-I on board - or -
simulated (hood) with a safety pilot) - see FAR61.65(d)(2)(iii) for details
You must have a combination of instrument flight instruction and simulated
(hood) time with a safety pilot that totals a minimum of 40-hours. The dual
instrument instruction that you received from your CFI while earning your
Student and Private ratings count towards this total. If your CFI was also
a CFI-I, then the dual instruction from 'back then' would also count towards
the 15-hours (minumum) of dual instruction from a CFI-I. The balance of the
40-hours can be under simulated (hood) flight with a safety pilot. The
safety pilot does not need to be a CFI or a CFI-I. The only way you can
legally operate and log 'actual' dual instrument flight time is with a CFI
in a command seat. You could not, for instance, log 'actual' instrument
time with an IFR rated safety pilot - if you encounter IMC during simulated
(hood) flight with an IFR rated safety pilot, the safety pilot legally
becomes the PIC.
And, as Andy mentioned, you may apply up to 20-hours of the needed 40-hours
of simulated instrument time in an approved flight training device with a
CFI-I. Time 'flying' an approved flight training device without a CFI
cannot be logged.
In my opinion the best approach is to team up with a good CFI-I. Map out a
plan to spend between 5 to 10-hours in an approved flight training device
with your CFI-I. The flight training device is a gread medium to learn
approach and holding procedures.
Then spend another 10-hours with your CFI in the aircraft. Ask your CFI
what he/she feels about dual instruction in IMC. I highly recommend it!
Also, during that time, do some night hood time with your CFI - or maybe do
the 250-mile cross country at night with your CFI-I. This is a great
experience. By this time you should have around 25-hours of dual instrument
time with a CFI-I. At this point I would team up with an IFR rated safety
pilot - and go fly about 10-hours practicing under the hood what you have
learned. When you feel that things have 'come together' - schedule 5-hours
or more with your CFI-I in preparation for the Instrument Practical Test.
Remember that 40-hours is the minimum required by the FAA. Many pilots
require more time time to master what needs to be learned. Learning and
getting ready for the IFR check ride is demanding. You will do better, and
take less time if you can clear your schedule of work - and fly 2 or 3 times
each week.
Instrument flight and instrument flight training is about learning to "walk,
talk, and chew gum at the same time". You will be amazed at the number of
times you will ask your CFI-I, "What'd he say?" when ATC issues you
instructions. It's about learning procedures, staying ahead of the
aircraft, situational awareness, and making good decisions.
Scott B
CFI-I
----- Original Message -----
From: Andrew Judge <mailto:ajudge at grovenetworks.com>
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <mailto:reflector at tvbf.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 12:47 PM
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: IFR training
You'll need 40+ hours with the CFII. 20 of which can be in approved
simulator with the CFII. That's as far as I know or at least was shown to me
as a IFR student just one / two years ago. John can probably answer that
much better.
I did 2 hours in a simulator and hated it. I think it was much better in a
plane anyway. I didn't use my velocity because we thought it might be hard
to get a check ride in it. It might be feasible to do 20 hours in a velocity
and then 20 in a 172 or something to prepare for the check ride. I had 18
hours from 12 years ago and spent 22 hours in a 172 preparing.
Andy
From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
Behalf Of nmflyer1 at aol.com
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 12:23 PM
To: reflector at tvbf.org
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: IFR training
Lou,
I am sure that a CFII will have better answers than I do. When I got my IFR,
you were allowed to complete a portion (can't remember how much) of your IFR
training on/in an "approved simulator". This actually was cost effective and
a good way to begin basic scan and principles. I believe that you do have to
have At Least 15 hours of time with a CFII, and a total of 40 when you
combine simulators & flying.
Kurt
-----Original Message-----
From: Lou Stedman <stedmanlou at roadrunner.com>
To: Reflector <Reflector at tvbf.org>; Canard Aviators
<canard-aviators at yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Mar 3, 2011 10:14 am
Subject: REFLECTOR: IFR training
I am considering taking training to get my IFR certificate. I am confused as
to what the requirements of a CFI or CFII are. Part 61.65 says that 40 hours
of actual or simulated IFR training is required before I can take the check
ride. Then it says that 15 hrs with a CFII are required, 3 of which have to
be within 60 days of the check ride. It also states that a 250 mile cross
country is required.
What I am confused about is how much of the 40 hrs has to be with a CFII? Is
it only 15 hrs and the rest is just with a check pilot? As usual the FAR is
confusing. Any help would be appreciated.
Lou Stedman
Velocity SEFG
N7044Q
Olean, NY
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