REFLECTOR: IFR training

Lawrence Epstein ljepstein at hotmail.com
Wed Mar 9 04:23:56 CST 2011 

Like I said, once a month or so, fly 1 leg (with at least 1 approach) under
the hood (or in actual), with a safety pilot and the autopilot off.

Larry

On Wed, Mar 9, 2011 at 1:45 AM, <velocityoner at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Larry,
> You're absolutely right Larry. However be careful using the autopilot. For
> three years I flew freight six nights a week and always used the back course
> to get into Dothan. On the one morning that the autopilot was out I was fine
> until the back course. It was so sloppy that O swore from that point on I
> would never use an autopilot again for an approach. Now that's a little
> extreme I admit but just make sure that you keep your skills up to be able
> to survive with the minimum amount of help.
> Victor Taylor CFII
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Mar 8, 2011, at 2:24 PM, Lawrence Epstein <ljepstein at hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> I would agree wholeheartedly with Terry.
>
> I would add that once you have you ticket, you should fly "in the system"
> as often as possible. (In your aircraft).
>
> When you get your ticket, look for days with ~1000 ft ceilings ~1 mile vis
> and go shoot approaches, with another IFR qualified person in the right
> seat. Let them handle the radio frequencies (you talk) for the first few
> sessions.
>
> I have the luxury of flying with other pilots ~90% of the time. I routinely
> file 1 leg and fly the plan. If you use the autopilot (which you should
> ALWAYS use in actual (IMHO), there is no need to wear a view limiting
> device. (Every 3rd or 4th flight I fly "under the hood", without the AP).
> You will develop the muscle memory and system fluency you need so that
> actual is a non event.
>
>
> Larry Epstein
>
> On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 1:12 PM, Terry Miles < <terrence_miles at hotmail.com>
> terrence_miles at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>  Scott, and everyone,
>>
>> These are some great ideas.  Let me add a couple.  I know we are all
>> different.  So this is my 2 cents, and I also realize this thread has to do
>> with getting the ticket, and less about transition into *your*airplane.  I would like to make the distinction between legal methods to get
>> a license and safe ops in IMC.  If you have the time, then an in-residence,
>> concentrated, professional operation (ehrrr-license mill some of them w/ a
>> big question bank) that has an in-the-can program like Rene attended is a
>> good way to get legal.  I think I do that myself, if I had it to do
>> over, so you can get the licensing issue out of the way, and have some great
>> notes and procedures and much more.
>>
>> Next I would take those new skills and sit long and hard in your own
>> cockpit and come up with an instrument procedure pre-take off/top of descent
>> flow for IMC departure and IMC arrival, and do it over and over and over in
>> the airplane and then a bunch of times in front of a cardboard mock up of
>> your panel and simultaneously control Velo in MS Flight Sim 2004 on
>> autopilot so you are free to concentrate on procedure.  Only you can do
>> this.  When you have that cold, over several nights a week for several
>> weeks, invite your CFII for a cup of coffee and do a demo...again with
>> the microsoft airplane on autopilot...this is procedural practice.
>>
>> Next step is go flying with that same CFII and see how you do, so he can
>> be up on what you intended to accomplish--not that you just didn't bust
>> minimums.
>>
>> Unless you are in your cockpit with your procedures, I would suggest
>> that successful completion of course of study and a ticket in your wallet is
>> more like a legal step.  To operate smoothly and safely in IMC, and have all
>> the muscle memory to know instinctively what's needed in the soup in front
>> of your panel, is another task.  Have a plan for both.  Or as some one once
>> wrote:  "In my head, I can play a perfect game of tennis."
>>
>> I will add an aside note here:  I know of a local flight school with
>> schools airplanes that are not GPS, so they are teaching VOR and ADF stuff.
>> Do not accept that, if you plan to operate with a WAAS GPS panel go get
>> appropriate training.
>>
>> Terry
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> From: <scottb33333 at gmail.com>scottb33333 at gmail.com
>> To: <reflector at tvbf.org>reflector at tvbf.org
>> Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 14:03:00 -0500
>> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: IFR training
>>
>> While some instrument rating candidates elect to spend all of the 40-hours
>> of actual or simulated instrument time with a CFI-I, this is not necessary.
>> A quick summary of the aeronautica experience needed to take the
>> Instrument rating examination are:
>> *    50-hours PIC Cross Country time (not necessarily simulate instrument
>> time, these hours can be VFR)
>> *    40-hours of actual or simulated (i.e. hood) instrument time
>> *    At least 15-hours of dual flight instruction from a CFI-I
>> *    At least 3-hours of which are spent with your CFI-I in test
>> preparation within 60-days of taking the examination
>> *    IFR cross country flight (actual, with a CFI-I on board - or -
>> simulated (hood) with a safety pilot) - see FAR61.65(d)(2)(iii) for details
>>
>> You must have a combination of instrument flight instruction and simulated
>> (hood) time with a safety pilot that totals a minimum of 40-hours.  The dual
>> instrument instruction that you received from your CFI while earning your
>> Student and Private ratings count towards this total.  If your CFI was also
>> a CFI-I, then the dual instruction from 'back then' would also count towards
>> the 15-hours (minumum) of dual instruction from a CFI-I.  The balance of the
>> 40-hours can be under simulated (hood) flight with a safety pilot.  The
>> safety pilot does not need to be a CFI or a CFI-I.  The only way you can
>> legally operate and log 'actual' dual instrument flight time is with a CFI
>> in a command seat.  You could not, for instance, log 'actual' instrument
>> time with an IFR rated safety pilot - if you encounter IMC during simulated
>> (hood) flight with an IFR rated safety pilot, the safety pilot legally
>> becomes the PIC.
>>
>> And, as Andy mentioned, you may apply up to 20-hours of the needed
>> 40-hours of simulated instrument time in an approved flight training device
>> with a CFI-I.  Time 'flying' an approved flight training device without a
>> CFI cannot be logged.
>>
>> In my opinion the best approach is to team up with a good CFI-I.  Map out
>> a plan to spend between 5 to 10-hours in an approved flight training device
>> with your CFI-I.  The flight training device is a gread medium to learn
>> approach and holding procedures.
>> Then spend another 10-hours with your CFI in the aircraft.  Ask your CFI
>> what he/she feels about dual instruction in IMC.  I highly recommend it!
>> Also, during that time, do some night hood time with your CFI - or maybe do
>> the 250-mile cross country at night with your CFI-I.  This is a great
>> experience.  By this time you should have around 25-hours of dual instrument
>> time with a CFI-I.  At this point I would team up with an IFR rated safety
>> pilot - and go fly about 10-hours practicing under the hood what you have
>> learned.  When you feel that things have 'come together' - schedule 5-hours
>> or more with your CFI-I in preparation for the Instrument Practical Test.
>>
>> Remember that 40-hours is the minimum required by the FAA.  Many pilots
>> require more time time to master what needs to be learned.  Learning and
>> getting ready for the IFR check ride is demanding.  You will do better, and
>> take less time if you can clear your schedule of work - and fly 2 or 3 times
>> each week.
>>
>> Instrument flight and instrument flight training is about learning to
>> "walk, talk, and chew gum at the same time".  You will be amazed at the
>> number of times you will ask your CFI-I, "What'd he say?" when ATC issues
>> you instructions.  It's about learning procedures, staying ahead of the
>> aircraft, situational awareness, and making good decisions.
>>
>> Scott B
>> CFI-I
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> *From:* Andrew Judge <ajudge at grovenetworks.com>
>> *To:* Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
>> *Sent:* Thursday, March 03, 2011 12:47 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: REFLECTOR: IFR training
>>
>>  You’ll need 40+ hours with the CFII. 20 of which can be in approved
>> simulator with the CFII. That’s as far as I know or at least was shown to me
>> as a IFR student just one / two years ago. John can probably answer that
>> much better.
>>
>>
>>
>> I did 2 hours in a simulator and hated it. I think it was much better in a
>> plane anyway. I didn’t use my velocity because we thought it might be hard
>> to get a check ride in it. It might be feasible to do 20 hours in a velocity
>> and then 20 in a 172 or something to prepare for the check ride. I had 18
>> hours from 12 years ago and spent 22 hours in a 172 preparing.
>>
>>
>>
>> Andy
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* <reflector-bounces at tvbf.org>reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:<reflector-bounces at tvbf.org>
>> reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] *On Behalf Of * <nmflyer1 at aol.com>
>> nmflyer1 at aol.com
>> *Sent:* Thursday, March 03, 2011 12:23 PM
>> *To:* <reflector at tvbf.org>reflector at tvbf.org
>> *Subject:* Re: REFLECTOR: IFR training
>>
>>
>>
>> Lou,
>>
>>
>>
>> I am sure that a CFII will have better answers than I do. When I got my
>> IFR, you were allowed to complete a portion (can't remember how much) of
>> your IFR training on/in an "approved simulator". This actually was cost
>> effective and a good way to begin basic scan and principles. I believe that
>> you do have to have At Least 15 hours of time with a CFII, and a total of 40
>> when you combine simulators & flying.
>>
>>
>>
>> Kurt
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Lou Stedman < <stedmanlou at roadrunner.com>stedmanlou at roadrunner.com>
>> To: Reflector < <Reflector at tvbf.org>Reflector at tvbf.org>; Canard Aviators
>> < <canard-aviators at yahoogroups.com>canard-aviators at yahoogroups.com>
>> Sent: Thu, Mar 3, 2011 10:14 am
>> Subject: REFLECTOR: IFR training
>>
>> I am considering taking training to get my IFR certificate. I am confused
>> as to what the requirements of a CFI or CFII are. Part 61.65 says that 40
>> hours of actual or simulated IFR training is required before I can take the
>> check ride. Then it says that 15 hrs with a CFII are required, 3 of which
>> have to be within 60 days of the check ride. It also states that a 250 mile
>> cross country is required.
>>
>>
>>
>> What I am confused about is how much of the 40 hrs has to be with a CFII?
>> Is it only 15 hrs and the rest is just with a check pilot? As usual the FAR
>> is confusing. Any help would be appreciated.
>>
>> Lou Stedman
>> Velocity SEFG
>> N7044Q
>> Olean, NY
>>
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>>
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