REFLECTOR: Prop runaway, not feather

Fri Jun 10 11:01:01 CDT 2011

I apologize for being the semantic police but going to fine pitch is the opposite of going to feather.  Feathering a prop when you lose an engine on a twin and you set the blades so that the prop stops turning to reduce drag.  Constant speed props on single engine planes can't go into feather as a general rule.  I have an IVO electrically controlled prop that has positive stops for course and fine pitch that are set so that the plane will be flyable if it gets stuck at either extreme.

Larry Coen
N136LC

From: Dave T Nelson 
Sent: Friday, June 10, 2011 10:18 AM
To: reflector at tvbf.org 
Subject: REFLECTOR: MT burned out pickup - fly?

Hi Sid, 

As I said in my other post, I don't think it's a good idea to fly... having done it, there is risk. 

If Andy's brush block is burned out, he won't be able to control the prop in manual mode.

My experience was pretty much directly applicable. The prop does not stay where it was left for long... it starts to feather... RPM (and temperatures) go up, and thrust goes down... eventually forcing a landing, since as the prop feathers and thrust decreases, eventually you don't have enough thrust even at redline RPM to stay in the air.

I made a bad decision trying to ferry my plane home in this condition... I wouldn't recommend it to anyone.

Dave

Dave T. Nelson
T/L 553-4327, Voice 507-253-4327, Fax 507-253-3648
Program Director, ISC ECAT NPI & Test Engineering

reflector-request---06/10/2011 09:10:14 AM---Send Reflector mailing list submissions to reflector at tvbf.org

        From: 
      reflector-request at tvbf.org 

        To: 
      reflector at tvbf.org 

        Date: 
      06/10/2011 09:10 AM 

        Subject: 
      Reflector Digest, Vol 75, Issue 53 

        Sent by: 
      reflector-bounces at tvbf.org 

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Today's Topics:

1. Re: MT elcoprop - burned out pickup - fly? (sbjknox)
2. Re: Hats (Bob Jackson)
3. Re: Fuel Sight Gauges (Scott Derrick)

----- Message from "sbjknox" <sbjknox at earthlink.net> on Fri, 10 Jun 2011 07:55:05 -0500 -----
      To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org> 
      Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: MT elcoprop - burned out pickup - fly? 

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Andrew Judge" <ajudge at grovenetworks.com>
Subject: REFLECTOR: MT elcoprop - burned out pickup - fly?

> I've got my second burned out brush block after about 230 hours on it.
> It's stuck in a fixed position. I was wondering if anyone has flown one 
> fixed
> like this until they were able to get a new brush block. Seems to be ok 
> flying.
> Attached is the picture of it at 5000 and I got a static of 2580. I've got 
> to get to MA...

> Andy

Hi Andy,
I began having trouble with the MT prop controller on my Velocity the first 
day I owned it and was flying it home from FL. This was an intermittent 
problem and it almost made me crazy trying to figure out the cause. I would 
remove the top cowling and began troubleshooting and suddenly it would start 
working. Then be ok for a few minutes or a few hours and fail again.
On mine, the brush block was mounted on an aluminum bracket with only one 
mounting point to the engine. This allowed for excessive movement out at 
the end where the brush block was located causing poor contact with the 
slip-rings and wearing the brushes unevenly.
I bought a new brush block and modified the mounting so as to be more rigid. 
This was about nine years ago and operation has been proper since.
My controller has two switches... one to select 'Auto/Manual' and the other 
to raise/lower the rpm when running in Manual mode. And of course, the knob 
(pot) to set the rpm in Auto. And a light to show when the prop is at the 
max-rpm limit-stop. One can easily fly the plane in Manual mode... just be 
careful on takeoff (full power) not to over-rev the engine.

Sid Knox
Oklahoma

Velocity 173 RG N199RS
Starduster N666SK
KR2 N24TC
W7QJQ

----- Message from "Bob Jackson" <bobj at computer.org> on Fri, 10 Jun 2011 09:54:13 -0400 -----
      To: "'Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list'" <reflector at tvbf.org> 
      Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Hats 

Nice hats!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On Behalf Of John Abraham
Sent: Monday, June 06, 2011 8:50 AM
To: reflector at tvbf.org
Subject: REFLECTOR: Hats

All of you who ordered hats and did not receive them yet I am sorry for the delay. I ran out of boxes to ship them and they just arrived Friday. They will be completed going out this week.

Thanks,

John Abraham
Chief Pilot; Executive V.P. Sales and Marketing

P: (772) 589-1860 200 W. Airport Dr.
F: (772) 589-1893 Sebastian, FL 32958
www.velocityaircraft.com

----- Message from Scott Derrick <scott at tnstaafl.net> on Fri, 10 Jun 2011 08:03:01 -0600 -----
      To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org> 
      Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Fuel Sight Gauges 

I made two balls out of micro.

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Fuel Sight Gauges
From: Rene Dugas <dugasd at bellsouth.net>
To: 'Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list' <reflector at tvbf.org>
Date: 06/09/2011 05:32 PM 
  Brian,
  What kind of red ball?  I use a cork ball but don’t like the look.  Clipped the hook off a Popping Bug (dry fly fishing lure) also but it scared the young Eagles with the Eyes and all.
  Rene’

  From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On Behalf Of Brian Michalk
  Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 2:31 PM
  To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
  Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Fuel Sight Gauges

  I'm using that Tygon from McMaster.

  I do have fuel in the tanks, and the yellow color is not that big of a problem.  They have been in fuel for less than a year, so I can't comment on durability.

  I have a strip of electroluminescent light behind mine, and a floating red ball.

  On 6/9/2011 2:06 PM, Tom Falls wrote: 
    For those using Tygon tubing AND auto fuel, are you just getting the tubing from a big box lumber store or are you ordering a special type? I have learned there many formulations   http://www.tygon.com/tygon-traditional-tubing.aspx 
    Anybody using Tygon F-4040 (made for fuel use)? How easy is it to see the fuel level?  http://www.mcmaster.com/#5552k32/=cobblm.  It’s only available as semi-clear yellow. I’m hoping others are having reasonable success with something clear.

  Tom

  From: Tom Falls [mailto:tomfalls6 at gmail.com] 
  Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2011 10:18 PM
  To: 'Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list'
  Subject: RE: REFLECTOR: Fuel Sight Gauges

  Thanks Kurt . . . I like simple!! As an improvement I think I’ll see if I can find a good clear hard tube that is slightly larger diameter than the tygon to protect it from accidental damage. I’m with Brett and Jim. The tygon by itself makes me nervous. I think your cover provides some protection, but for my comfort it needs a little more.

  Tom

  From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On Behalf Of nmflyer1 at aol.com
  Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2011 6:51 PM
  To: reflector at tvbf.org
  Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Fuel Sight Gauges

  Tom,  

  Ridiculously simple really.  I have the stock elbows and tygon tubing. Tubing clamps are the low profile plastic ones that lock/ratchet together when squeezed. 

  To make the covers:  I found PVC pipe that was about the right diameter to give me room to cover the sight gauges, then cut it to the length needed. Then I just laid it up on a bench using the PVC as a dummy form. 

  Once done, I did the usual release & sand. 

  Painting:  I went to Home depot with a sample of my material that I wanted to match. They made me a very good match in one of their sample latex packs (bout a pint). Sprayed it with an airbrush.  Cost:  $1.99. Matches great and I have used that for areas around the door pins, covers, etc. Once done and labeled, you can hit it with a coat of clear to lock in the labels & gloss it up a bit if you like. 

  Ways to hold them in place:  Dab of silicone (clean well before hand). or Velcro. 

  I have LED lighting in the top of the baggage area shining down. That gives plenty of non-glaring light to see the tubes.. also makes it easy to load the aircraft without powering it up (runs directly off 1 battery thru a 1A fuse). 

  Hope that helps.   Kurt 

  -----Original Message-----
  From: Tom Falls <tomfalls6 at gmail.com>
  To: 'Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list' <reflector at tvbf.org>
  Sent: Wed, Jun 8, 2011 3:50 pm
  Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Fuel Sight Gauges
  Kurt,
  Your installation looks fantastic and would work great for me. Can you share more detail about the construction including tubing material and the type of tubing clamps you used?

  Thanks much,
  Tom

  From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On Behalf Of nmflyer1 at aol.com
  Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2011 7:24 PM
  To: reflector at tvbf.org
  Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Fuel Sight Gauges

  Tom,  

  Here is how I did mine. I have not labeled them yet since I haven't done the W&B with fuel loading. Copy & paste if the links do not work.

  http://tinypic.com/r/2441biw/7    

  http://tinypic.com/r/121qtxw/7 ;

  Kurt 

  -----Original Message-----
  From: Tom Falls <tomfalls6 at gmail.com>
  To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
  Sent: Tue, Jun 7, 2011 8:53 am
  Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Fuel Sight Gauges
  I guess I missed that. I do plan on using auto fuel, so it's the factory design for me.  

  For those with the factory style sight gauges, could please send pictures of how you did the interior around them to make them more pleasing to the eye?

  Thanks much,
  Tom
  On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 5:00 PM, vance atkinson <nostromo56 at tx.rr.com> wrote:
  On 6/5/2011 12:45 AM, Al Gietzen wrote: 
  As I’ve mentioned previously; if you intend to use auto fuels, don’t use the Atkinson gauge. The white plastic background material is not compatible – unless it has been changed within the past couple of years.

  Al

    -----Original Message-----
    From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On Behalf Of Tom Falls
    Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2011 6:11 AM
    To: 'Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list'
    Subject: REFLECTOR: Fuel Sight Gauges

    On the topic of sight gauges (from Low fuel warning thread), I've heard rumblings of issues with the Atkinson gauges. I'm getting ready to install them. What are the watch-outs and/or improvements to make sure they remain effective and useful for the life of the plane? Or is it a matter of avoiding certain fuels?

    Tom

  They are not approved for auto fuel anymore and for the past several years the mfgs have been putting things in the fuel (and not telling the public) that can make the gauges crack and also soften.  The gauges  are certainly NOT to be used with ethanol.  I just use Av gas in my COZY, and for 25 years have had NO problems.  

  I usually tell builders if you HAVE  to use auto fuel (no ethanol in it) then put it the tank and use it up right away on your flight.  don't let it sit there for a month.

  Vance Atkinson
  EAA Tech and Flt Advisor

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