REFLECTOR: Aileron Rigging (was another Velocity in the air)

Fri Dec 2 21:27:42 CST 2011

Reflexing the ailerons will reduce drag- for a more detailed explanation of
why this is see this:

http://www.angelfire.com/on/dragonflyaircraft/reflexing.html

it uses a Dragonfly canard aircraft to illustrate the aerodynamics, but it
is the same with the Velocity.

Having the ailerons drooped is like flying with flaps deployed all of the
time- 

From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
Behalf Of Scott Baker
Sent: Friday, December 02, 2011 6:34 PM
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Another Velo in the air

Looks like contributions to this discussion are dealing with two issues ...

the first deals with aileron balancing (trailing edge up is good; trailing
edge down is bad) ...

the other deals with aileron rigging (trailing edge down offers better
stable handling; trailing edge up offers lively roll response).

Scott B.

----- Original Message ----- 

From: Michael Watson <mailto:mikewatsspg at gmail.com>  

To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <mailto:reflector at tvbf.org>  

Sent: Friday, December 02, 2011 6:37 PM

Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Another Velo in the air

Mine has been down a 1/4 inch for over twelve years and I have had no
problems with stability.
When the test pilot came up from Velocity to do my first flight, the first
thing he had me change
was to move them from level with the wings to 1/4 inch down. He claimed that
if they were up,
the leading edge would protrude below the wing and cause yawing.

Joel who owned a XL was having problems with unstable landings. I
re-adjusted his ailerons 
to 1/4 inch down and that solved his problem.

John, I think you are referring to initial balancing of the ailerons without
the cables connected

On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 4:59 PM, Scott Derrick <scott at tnstaafl.net> wrote:

Mine are rigged up also, per two different velocity factory a&p's 

aminetech at bluefrog.com wrote:

Mine are both 1/4" UP with no issues.  Rigging them both up was mentioned
several years ago (see below).  Should I change them?

Subject: 
            Re: REFLECTOR:AILERON CONTROL FORCE
       Date: 
            Tue, 9 Mar 2004 19:57:26 -0500
      From: 
            "Scott Baker" <sbakr at comcast.net>
   Reply-To: 
            reflector at tvbf.org
        To: 
            <reflector at tvbf.org>
 References: 
            1 , 2

I wanted to offer a clarification to an earlier post where I said ...

"How are the ailerons balanced?  Do they droop below the
trailing edge of the wings and is their movement almost
'frictionless'?"

When properly balanced, the trailing edge of the ailerons should rise
slightly above the trailing edge of the wings.  I was wanting to say
that IF
the ailerons on Tom's aircraft drooped below the trailing edge of the
main
wings, then this is a problem.  Besides inviting flutter, an aileron
that is
not balanced may also contribute to greater stick forces - which is
what we
are trying to trouble shoot from Tom's message.

Scott B.

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--- john at velocityaircraft.com wrote:

From: "John Abraham" <john at velocityaircraft.com>
To: "'Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list'" <reflector at tvbf.org>
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Another Velo in the air
Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2011 07:49:54 -0500

Dave,

SE and XL's should have ailerons drooped 1/8" down.  What your pilot was
experiencing was the leading edge of the ailerons grabbing the air and
pulling on the stick.  You can't find the centering point very well with
this.  The other thing to look at is if the leading edge has any sharp edges
on it.  You want the leading edge to be rounded so it doesn't grab the air. 

John 

From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
Behalf Of Dennis Martin
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 10:54 PM
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Another Velo in the air 

I hired John Abraham, Velocity Chief Pilot, to conduct my first flights. He
and I spent a couple hours doing fine tuning on the aileron and elevator
rigging. I think you should talk with John about your dutch roll and any
fine tuning you might do to make sure the ailerons are rigged properly. I
also had some nose wheel shimmy - we kept tightening the castle nut until it
went away. We went well past the 15 lbs recommended - perhaps as much as
20-25 lbs. on my fixed gear.

Good luck - I'm sure the factory team can help you figure it out.

Dennis

On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 8:42 PM, David Ullman <ullman at robustdecisions.com>
wrote: 

N-444DX, an SEFG took to the air for its first flight today after 5+ years
of work.  With Jorge Bujanda's flight,  that makes two planes this week.  I
hired a test pilot, Robin Reid (30,000+ hours in over 300 types of aircraft,
owner of a VarEZ for 5 years, and he flew a Velocity (Thanks Mel Rudin) just
two weeks ago) and I am glad I did.  Most everything worked well which was a
relief since I had been concerned about the engine that I built from a
basket case, brakes heating, and nose wheel shimmy, but none of these were a
problem.  But,I do seem to have a roll control problem that I will work out
over the next couple of days (starting with a call to Velocity tomorrow AM).

It seems that right after take-off Robin experienced a severe Dutch roll
problem whenever he input any aileron control.  This seemed to increase with
speed so he went around a big circle with rudder only and the ailerons
locked neutral. He kept the speed under 120kts and landed at about 100kts.
After taxiing it bask to the hangar I measured the following:

If I push down and let go, both ailerons fare even with the wings.
If I push up on one, it will stay up due to friction about .35" above the
wing when the other is even with its wing.
If I push up hard on one I can flex it to .550"

The reason for this test is the thought that the air loads are pushing them
both up, but this does not explain the Dutch roll (maybe?).

I measured the incidence of both wings at five different locations with an
angle measuring device and found that most values were within a degree of
each other (within the tolerance of the device).

I had a colleague put a resisting force on the ailerons and moved the
control stick and all seemed normal.

One thing I haven't checked is the gap between the wing and the aileron.
This was on spec early on, but there has been paint and other finishing
since then.  I will measure that tomorrow.

Anyone else have a Dutch Roll problem?  I am calling Velocity tomorrow AM to
get their input on this, but other ideas are more than welcome.

David Ullman
N-444DX Velocity
EAA 292 President
david at davidullman.com
541-754-3609

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-- 
All the best,
Dennis 

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-- 
Mike W.
1997 Velocity Elite RG
Franklin /IVO Electric CS
Dual GRT EFIS HX Synthetic Vision

  _____  

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