REFLECTOR: Another Velo in the air

Fri Dec 2 18:38:32 CST 2011

It's hard to see the ailerons when flying, but I would guess if they are drooped down 1/8 inch on the ground, they are neutral in the air at cruise speed...

Steve 

From: KMis178813 at aol.com
Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2011 19:03:24 -0500
To: reflector at tvbf.org
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Another Velo in the air

With testing experience of the small wing SE Fuselage. Drooped down makes 
the plane feel sluggish in roll. Lifted above flush makes the roll feel twitchy 
and very uncomfortable. Anywhere in between is Pilots choice. I tested from 
almost 1/2 inch down droop to 3/8 up and ended with about 1/8 droop for me. 
FWIW

     Ken Mishler 
     N2087M 900hrs. SUV FG 200HP
     N173EX  200hrs. 173 RG  300HP
     N872KM Still Building XLRG-5
     Building V-Twin

In a message dated 12/2/2011 6:45:45 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, 
mikewatsspg at gmail.com writes:
Mine has 
  been down a 1/4 inch for over twelve years and I have had no problems with 
  stability.
When the test pilot came up from Velocity to do my first flight, 
  the first thing he had me change
was to move them from level with the wings 
  to 1/4 inch down. He claimed that if they were up,
the leading edge would 
  protrude below the wing and cause yawing.

Joel who owned a XL was 
  having problems with unstable landings. I re-adjusted his ailerons 
to 1/4 
  inch down and that solved his problem.

John, I think you are referring 
  to initial balancing of the ailerons without the cables connected

  On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 4:59 PM, Scott Derrick <scott at tnstaafl.net> wrote:

  Mine are rigged up also, per two different velocity 
    factory a&p's 

aminetech at bluefrog.com wrote:

    Mine are both 1/4" UP with no issues.  Rigging them both up was 
    mentioned several years ago (see below).  Should I change them?

    Subject: 

            Re: 
    REFLECTOR:AILERON CONTROL FORCE

    Date: 

    Tue, 9 Mar 2004 19:57:26 -0500
      From: 

    "Scott Baker" <sbakr at comcast.net>
   Reply-To: 

            reflector at tvbf.org

    To: 

    <reflector at tvbf.org>
 References: 

            1 , 
    2

I wanted to offer a clarification to an earlier post where I said 
    ...
    "How are the ailerons balanced?  Do they droop below 
    the
trailing edge of the wings and is their movement 
    almost
'frictionless'?"
    When properly balanced, the trailing edge of the ailerons should 
    rise
slightly above the trailing edge of the wings.  I was wanting 
    to say
that IF
the ailerons on Tom's aircraft drooped below the 
    trailing edge of the
main
wings, then this is a problem.  Besides 
    inviting flutter, an aileron
that is
not balanced may also contribute 
    to greater stick forces - which is
what we
are trying to trouble shoot 
    from Tom's message.
    Scott B.

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--- john at velocityaircraft.com wrote:

From: "John 
    Abraham" <john at velocityaircraft.com>
To: "'Velocity Aircraft 
    Owners and Builders list'" <reflector at tvbf.org>
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Another 
    Velo in the air
Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2011 07:49:54 -0500

    Dave,

    SE 
    and XL’s should have ailerons drooped 1/8” down.  What your pilot was 
    experiencing was the leading edge of the ailerons grabbing the air and 
    pulling on the stick.  You can’t find the centering point very well 
    with this.  The other thing to look at is if the leading edge has any 
    sharp edges on it.  You want the leading edge to be rounded so it 
    doesn’t grab the air. 

    John 

    From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On Behalf Of Dennis 
    Martin
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 10:54 PM
To: 
    Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: 
    Another Velo in the air 

    I hired John Abraham, Velocity Chief Pilot, 
    to conduct my first flights. He and I spent a couple hours doing fine tuning 
    on the aileron and elevator rigging. I think you should talk with John about 
    your dutch roll and any fine tuning you might do to make sure the ailerons 
    are rigged properly. I also had some nose wheel shimmy - we kept tightening 
    the castle nut until it went away. We went well past the 15 lbs recommended 
    - perhaps as much as 20-25 lbs. on my fixed gear.

Good luck - I'm 
    sure the factory team can help you figure it 
    out.

Dennis

    On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 8:42 PM, David Ullman <ullman at robustdecisions.com> wrote: 

    N-444DX, an SEFG took to the air for its first flight today after 5+ 
    years
of work.  With Jorge Bujanda's flight,  that makes two 
    planes this week.  I
hired a test pilot, Robin Reid (30,000+ hours 
    in over 300 types of aircraft,
owner of a VarEZ for 5 years, and he flew 
    a Velocity (Thanks Mel Rudin) just
two weeks ago) and I am glad I did. 
     Most everything worked well which was a
relief since I had been 
    concerned about the engine that I built from a
basket case, brakes 
    heating, and nose wheel shimmy, but none of these were a
problem. 
     But,I do seem to have a roll control problem that I will work 
    out
over the next couple of days (starting with a call to Velocity 
    tomorrow AM).

It seems that right after take-off Robin 
    experienced a severe Dutch roll
problem whenever he input any aileron 
    control.  This seemed to increase with
speed so he went around a big 
    circle with rudder only and the ailerons
locked neutral. He kept the 
    speed under 120kts and landed at about 100kts.
After taxiing it bask to 
    the hangar I measured the following:

If I push down and let go, both 
    ailerons fare even with the wings.
If I push up on one, it will stay up 
    due to friction about .35" above the
wing when the other is even with its 
    wing.
If I push up hard on one I can flex it to .550"

The reason 
    for this test is the thought that the air loads are pushing them
both up, 
    but this does not explain the Dutch roll (maybe?).

I measured the 
    incidence of both wings at five different locations with an
angle 
    measuring device and found that most values were within a degree of
each 
    other (within the tolerance of the device).

I had a colleague put a 
    resisting force on the ailerons and moved the
control stick and all 
    seemed normal.

One thing I haven't checked is the gap between the 
    wing and the aileron.
This was on spec early on, but there has been paint 
    and other finishing
since then.  I will measure that 
    tomorrow.

Anyone else have a Dutch Roll problem?  I am calling 
    Velocity tomorrow AM to
get their input on this, but other ideas are more 
    than welcome.

David Ullman
N-444DX Velocity
EAA 292 
    President
david at davidullman.com
541-754-3609

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-- 
All the best,
Dennis 
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-- 
Mike W.
1997 Velocity Elite RG
Franklin /IVO 
  Electric CS
Dual GRT EFIS HX Synthetic 
  Vision

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