REFLECTOR: Reflector Digest, Vol 81, Issue 1 - Dutch roll and brake rattle
Mark Riley
the_rileys1 at verizon.net
Thu Dec 1 18:57:25 CST 2011
I had the same sort of issue on my first flights. If the stick was moved even slightly in either direction, it would jerk over suddenly to increase the bank. It was very disconcerting. John Abraham pointed out that in filling the ailerons for painting, I had created a somewhat sharp edge at the bottom forward edge of the ailerons. I sanded them to make a perfectly smooth, round transition and the problem completely went away.
Don't be discouraged- you will find that seemingly large problems can be fixed with very small changes. Congratulations on your first flight!
As a follow up on my brake rattle fix, you can hear it at 1:56 on the landing video on Youtube at
http://youtu.be/7LCeZUDiKdc
Mark
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Nose Gear wrench for XL-RG's (Fred Anderka)
> 2. Shopping for a resistive fuel sending unit (Peter Braswell)
> 3. Re: Shopping for a resistive fuel sending unit (Scott Derrick)
> 4. W&B sample for FAA DAR (Kevin Baker)
> 5. Re: Another Velo in the air (David Ullman)
> 6. Re: Another Velo in the air (Dennis Martin)
> 7. Re: Another Velo in the air (John Abraham)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 13:19:09 -0500
> From: Fred Anderka <fred at holohil.com>
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Nose Gear wrench for XL-RG's
> To: "reflector at tvbf.org" <reflector at tvbf.org>
> Message-ID:
> <3353E8E953531E46AE20213BEA482D45687DCF86CA at HSLSERV.hsl.local>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> To make your own wrench, buy a socket at Harbor Freight and slice off a 1/4" section which is then welded to a 1/2"-5/8" steel tube (7" long) with a flattened end. Buy a cheap socket with softer steel, not a Snap-On, it's hard enough to cut a cheap socket with a hacksaw. A regular socket will make 2 wrenches, a deep socket will probably make 3. Grinding the front edge of the socket section down to 3/16" helps get the wrench between the tire and the gear nut.
>
> I am wondering if other owners have noticed a groove worn in the middle of the nose gear tire? My front tire must expand quite a bit during the landing roll and is contacting the front gear tube that protrudes just a bit (2 threads) below the cut down Nylock nut.
>
> Talk to Scott, the welding shop at Velocity has made a number of them for various builders.
>
> Fred Anderka
> C-GHOL
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 13:23:14 -0500
> From: Peter Braswell <peter.braswell at gmail.com>
> Subject: REFLECTOR: Shopping for a resistive fuel sending unit
> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
> Message-ID:
> <CAP6bQxH3zhLrLiubn4gkY-QSRDpmbt0j9dbg+di0txGFLR1Bdw at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> All,
> I thought this would be easier than it's turned out to be.
>
> I'm getting ready to finish off/close up my strakes. I want to install a
> resistive fuel sending unit in each tank. Resistive seems to be the
> preference with the Skyview system. Are there any suggestions as to which
> brand/supplier and maybe tips/hints about installation? I believe somebody
> just posted about this subject a few months ago ....
>
> Best,
> Peter
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *"It's a Jungle Up There": www.zuluworks.com*
> *Great Aviation Gear: www.sky-gadgets.com*
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 12:02:18 -0700
> From: Scott Derrick <scott at tnstaafl.net>
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Shopping for a resistive fuel sending unit
> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
> Message-ID: <4ED67DBA.4080603 at tnstaafl.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 17:00:18 -0600
> From: Kevin Baker <flykb at verizon.net>
> Subject: REFLECTOR: W&B sample for FAA DAR
> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
> Cc: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
> Message-ID: <5895FAFE-694A-47F8-9650-037231ACC71A at verizon.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Does anyone have a sample w&b they used to submit to the FAA DAR
>
> Thanks
> Kevin
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 19:42:05 -0800
> From: "David Ullman" <ullman at robustdecisions.com>
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Another Velo in the air
> To: <reflector at tvbf.org>
> Message-ID: <030201ccafdb$329f2190$97dd64b0$@com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> N-444DX, an SEFG took to the air for its first flight today after 5+ years
> of work. With Jorge Bujanda's flight, that makes two planes this week. I
> hired a test pilot, Robin Reid (30,000+ hours in over 300 types of aircraft,
> owner of a VarEZ for 5 years, and he flew a Velocity (Thanks Mel Rudin) just
> two weeks ago) and I am glad I did. Most everything worked well which was a
> relief since I had been concerned about the engine that I built from a
> basket case, brakes heating, and nose wheel shimmy, but none of these were a
> problem. But,I do seem to have a roll control problem that I will work out
> over the next couple of days (starting with a call to Velocity tomorrow AM).
>
>
> It seems that right after take-off Robin experienced a severe Dutch roll
> problem whenever he input any aileron control. This seemed to increase with
> speed so he went around a big circle with rudder only and the ailerons
> locked neutral. He kept the speed under 120kts and landed at about 100kts.
> After taxiing it bask to the hangar I measured the following:
>
> If I push down and let go, both ailerons fare even with the wings.
> If I push up on one, it will stay up due to friction about .35" above the
> wing when the other is even with its wing.
> If I push up hard on one I can flex it to .550"
>
> The reason for this test is the thought that the air loads are pushing them
> both up, but this does not explain the Dutch roll (maybe?).
>
> I measured the incidence of both wings at five different locations with an
> angle measuring device and found that most values were within a degree of
> each other (within the tolerance of the device).
>
> I had a colleague put a resisting force on the ailerons and moved the
> control stick and all seemed normal.
>
> One thing I haven't checked is the gap between the wing and the aileron.
> This was on spec early on, but there has been paint and other finishing
> since then. I will measure that tomorrow.
>
> Anyone else have a Dutch Roll problem? I am calling Velocity tomorrow AM to
> get their input on this, but other ideas are more than welcome.
>
> David Ullman
> N-444DX Velocity
> EAA 292 President
> david at davidullman.com
> 541-754-3609
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 20:54:22 -0700
> From: Dennis Martin <dennis.doc at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Another Velo in the air
> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
> Message-ID:
> <CAG8_WT9JwgLt7Otjp3KoFxP0E797qwGJWSQjRdsK7eytBxwLHw at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> I hired John Abraham, Velocity Chief Pilot, to conduct my first flights. He
> and I spent a couple hours doing fine tuning on the aileron and elevator
> rigging. I think you should talk with John about your dutch roll and any
> fine tuning you might do to make sure the ailerons are rigged properly. I
> also had some nose wheel shimmy - we kept tightening the castle nut until
> it went away. We went well past the 15 lbs recommended - perhaps as much as
> 20-25 lbs. on my fixed gear.
>
> Good luck - I'm sure the factory team can help you figure it out.
>
> Dennis
>
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 8:42 PM, David Ullman <ullman at robustdecisions.com>wrote:
>
>> N-444DX, an SEFG took to the air for its first flight today after 5+ years
>> of work. With Jorge Bujanda's flight, that makes two planes this week. I
>> hired a test pilot, Robin Reid (30,000+ hours in over 300 types of
>> aircraft,
>> owner of a VarEZ for 5 years, and he flew a Velocity (Thanks Mel Rudin)
>> just
>> two weeks ago) and I am glad I did. Most everything worked well which was
>> a
>> relief since I had been concerned about the engine that I built from a
>> basket case, brakes heating, and nose wheel shimmy, but none of these were
>> a
>> problem. But,I do seem to have a roll control problem that I will work out
>> over the next couple of days (starting with a call to Velocity tomorrow
>> AM).
>>
>>
>> It seems that right after take-off Robin experienced a severe Dutch roll
>> problem whenever he input any aileron control. This seemed to increase
>> with
>> speed so he went around a big circle with rudder only and the ailerons
>> locked neutral. He kept the speed under 120kts and landed at about 100kts.
>> After taxiing it bask to the hangar I measured the following:
>>
>> If I push down and let go, both ailerons fare even with the wings.
>> If I push up on one, it will stay up due to friction about .35" above the
>> wing when the other is even with its wing.
>> If I push up hard on one I can flex it to .550"
>>
>> The reason for this test is the thought that the air loads are pushing them
>> both up, but this does not explain the Dutch roll (maybe?).
>>
>> I measured the incidence of both wings at five different locations with an
>> angle measuring device and found that most values were within a degree of
>> each other (within the tolerance of the device).
>>
>> I had a colleague put a resisting force on the ailerons and moved the
>> control stick and all seemed normal.
>>
>> One thing I haven't checked is the gap between the wing and the aileron.
>> This was on spec early on, but there has been paint and other finishing
>> since then. I will measure that tomorrow.
>>
>> Anyone else have a Dutch Roll problem? I am calling Velocity tomorrow AM
>> to
>> get their input on this, but other ideas are more than welcome.
>>
>> David Ullman
>> N-444DX Velocity
>> EAA 292 President
>> david at davidullman.com
>> 541-754-3609
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> To change your email address, visit
>> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>>
>> Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
>> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
>> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
>> Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
>>
>
>
>
> --
> All the best,
> Dennis
> -------------- next part --------------
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2011 07:49:54 -0500
> From: "John Abraham" <john at velocityaircraft.com>
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Another Velo in the air
> To: "'Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list'"
> <reflector at tvbf.org>
> Message-ID: <001e01ccb027$b9331e90$2b995bb0$@velocityaircraft.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Dave,
>
>
>
> SE and XL's should have ailerons drooped 1/8" down. What your pilot was
> experiencing was the leading edge of the ailerons grabbing the air and
> pulling on the stick. You can't find the centering point very well with
> this. The other thing to look at is if the leading edge has any sharp edges
> on it. You want the leading edge to be rounded so it doesn't grab the air.
>
>
>
> John
>
>
>
> From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
> Behalf Of Dennis Martin
> Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 10:54 PM
> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Another Velo in the air
>
>
>
> I hired John Abraham, Velocity Chief Pilot, to conduct my first flights. He
> and I spent a couple hours doing fine tuning on the aileron and elevator
> rigging. I think you should talk with John about your dutch roll and any
> fine tuning you might do to make sure the ailerons are rigged properly. I
> also had some nose wheel shimmy - we kept tightening the castle nut until it
> went away. We went well past the 15 lbs recommended - perhaps as much as
> 20-25 lbs. on my fixed gear.
>
> Good luck - I'm sure the factory team can help you figure it out.
>
> Dennis
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 8:42 PM, David Ullman <ullman at robustdecisions.com>
> wrote:
>
> N-444DX, an SEFG took to the air for its first flight today after 5+ years
> of work. With Jorge Bujanda's flight, that makes two planes this week. I
> hired a test pilot, Robin Reid (30,000+ hours in over 300 types of aircraft,
> owner of a VarEZ for 5 years, and he flew a Velocity (Thanks Mel Rudin) just
> two weeks ago) and I am glad I did. Most everything worked well which was a
> relief since I had been concerned about the engine that I built from a
> basket case, brakes heating, and nose wheel shimmy, but none of these were a
> problem. But,I do seem to have a roll control problem that I will work out
> over the next couple of days (starting with a call to Velocity tomorrow AM).
>
>
> It seems that right after take-off Robin experienced a severe Dutch roll
> problem whenever he input any aileron control. This seemed to increase with
> speed so he went around a big circle with rudder only and the ailerons
> locked neutral. He kept the speed under 120kts and landed at about 100kts.
> After taxiing it bask to the hangar I measured the following:
>
> If I push down and let go, both ailerons fare even with the wings.
> If I push up on one, it will stay up due to friction about .35" above the
> wing when the other is even with its wing.
> If I push up hard on one I can flex it to .550"
>
> The reason for this test is the thought that the air loads are pushing them
> both up, but this does not explain the Dutch roll (maybe?).
>
> I measured the incidence of both wings at five different locations with an
> angle measuring device and found that most values were within a degree of
> each other (within the tolerance of the device).
>
> I had a colleague put a resisting force on the ailerons and moved the
> control stick and all seemed normal.
>
> One thing I haven't checked is the gap between the wing and the aileron.
> This was on spec early on, but there has been paint and other finishing
> since then. I will measure that tomorrow.
>
> Anyone else have a Dutch Roll problem? I am calling Velocity tomorrow AM to
> get their input on this, but other ideas are more than welcome.
>
> David Ullman
> N-444DX Velocity
> EAA 292 President
> david at davidullman.com
> 541-754-3609
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> To change your email address, visit
> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>
> Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
> Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
>
>
>
>
> --
> All the best,
> Dennis
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Visit the gallery! tvbf:jamaicangoose
>
> End of Reflector Digest, Vol 81, Issue 1
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