REFLECTOR: Reflector Digest, Vol 62, Issue 64 - Paint shop

Mark Riley the_rileys1 at verizon.net
Sat Jul 25 21:19:14 CDT 2009 

Try Lancaster Aero Refinishers in Smoketown, PA. I had my first plane N929V
painted there and am having the new XL painted there. You can see the first
one on Brett Ferrell's site or on Andy's Velocity Home Movie.

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Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 9:03 PM
To: reflector at tvbf.org
Subject: Reflector Digest, Vol 62, Issue 64

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Today's Topics:

   1.  painting a Velocity (TimRhod at aol.com)
   2. Re:  Hardening Hardener (Jack Prock)
   3. Re:  Hardening Hardener (gattenby at tulsaconnect.com)
   4. Re:  Hardening Hardener (milehitaz)
   5. Re:  Hardening Hardener (KMis178813 at aol.com)


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Message: 1
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2009 18:39:16 EDT
From: TimRhod at aol.com
Subject: REFLECTOR: painting a Velocity
To: Reflector at tvbf.org
Message-ID: <cc4.54919fd1.379ce394 at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Well after four years of flying its time to get my plane  painted. XLRG.   
I am asking for suggestions/recommendations for  a paint shop. I'm in SW 
Ohio but could go some distance if necessary. 
I will need some minor finishing, priming, and painting.  Could anyone  
recommend a paint shop you were pleased with and approximate cost to get the

job  done?   Thanks Tim Rhodenbaugh
**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy 
steps! 
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Message: 2
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2009 16:48:17 -0800
From: "Jack Prock" <jackprock at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Hardening Hardener
To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
Message-ID: <085701ca0d8a$c44bcb70$c801a8c0 at jaxwindows>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"

The heating trick does work. I have done it several times over the years.
The hardener never comes back to perfectly new, and if you do it several
times, it will eventually thicken so much you will  have to throw it out.

But, the quart you just warmed should be good for
a while, as long as it doesn't get cold again. Just try and keep warm
the amount you are going to use in the next few months. Also, make
sure you keep it covered in the warming box. It will slow the aging process.
Something about the amines in the hardener evaporating (I think...)

The crystal mush is exactly what happens when it sits at room temperature
for too long... don't worry. It will come back with the heating process.
Mine was exactly like that before I reheated it. Just leave it alone and
only warm up what you need in the near future.

Also, the gooey tar will eventually start to clog your sticky stuff machine
if you are using one. Eventually you may have to pull it apart and clean
it. Not a big job, takes about an hour. But kinda messy, don't ask me how
I know.

Jack

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Brooke Wolf" <bwolf1 at tds.net>
To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 1:37 PM
Subject: REFLECTOR: Hardening Hardener


> I know this has been addressed before on this forum, but I am  having
> a problem with hardening hardener.
>
> All of my hardener is less than 2 years old.  It is from the Velocity
> Factory.  I keep some hardener in a 85 deg box.  I have been away from
> my project for 3-4 months.  Now, I noticed that it is getting a little
> thick, somewhat like a gooey tar.  I  tried heating it by putting the
> gallon jug (with less than a quart of hardener in it) in water at 150
> deg.  I let the hardener get to about 130 deg for about 15 minutes.
> The heating certainly made it more viscous, but as it cooled it got a
> little thick again.....but not as thick as before.  I don't have much
> confidence in the heating trick.  What did I do wrong?
>
> Just for grins, I checked on two jugs of hardener which have been
> sitting in my basement for 2 years.  The temp down there stays a
> pretty constant 70 deg.  Much to my chagrin, both jugs seem to have
> solidified into a crystalline mush.  Any ideas?!!
>
> Brooke
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> To change your email address, visit
http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>
> Visit the gallery!  www.tvbf.org/gallery
> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
> Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html


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Message: 3
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2009 19:22:30 -0500
From: <gattenby at tulsaconnect.com>
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Hardening Hardener
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
Message-ID: <web-48317504 at cgpro2.tulsaconnect.com>
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Message: 4
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2009 17:48:42 -0700
From: milehitaz <milehitaz at aol.com>
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Hardening Hardener
To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
Message-ID: <39d08897.5555.4090.bc28.29e4ffbdf24c at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Seems to me Humidity plays a big part in the hardener turning into the
crystal and goo. First 3 years i had my project I lived in Lake Tahoe, all
my epoxy lived in a hot box kept about 90 to 100 and was always fine. Last 5
years I have been on the coast in Oregon and the stuff seems to turn in less
than 6 to 8 months if I haven't used it and it lives in the same Hot Box at
the same temp. Tahoe is low humidity area...Pacific North West is very cool
n damp. I reheat the stuff with a heat gun and it comes back ok but I didn't
use it in critical areas like when assembling the strakes. 
Always used test batches before any of it was used on the project. Good
luck,

Larry



In a message dated 07/25/09 17:23:20 Pacific Daylight Time,
gattenby at tulsaconnect.com writes:
EZ84 ordered from spruce, comes in metal cans.  That seems to help with the
aromatics, but it still seems to turn dark.

As far as the thick goo...  heating seems to restore the viscosity.
Every spring before I start working again,  I do a few "test" baches while I
clean the pump.
If the test strips and the leftovers in the cup get hard...  I use it.

Several test that I've heard over the years are...
if you can drill through the layup without the edges fraying...
If you can't scratch the leftover in the culp with a fingernail, but can
with a real nail...
then the batch is ok.


Noel


On Sat, 25 Jul 2009 16:46:23 -0500
 Brian Michalk <michalk at awpi.com> wrote:
> I'm wondering if the epoxy should be stored in something 
>other than
> plastic to keep the aromatics.
> 
> I am trying glass canning jars.  It will take a few 
>years to know for sure.
> 
> Brooke Wolf wrote:
>> I know this has been addressed before on this forum, but 
>>I am  having a
>> problem with hardening hardener.
>> 
>> All of my hardener is less than 2 years old.  It is from 
>>the Velocity
>> Factory.  I keep some hardener in a 85 deg box.  I have 
>>been away from
>> my project for 3-4 months.  Now, I noticed that it is 
>>getting a little
>> thick, somewhat like a gooey tar.  I  tried heating it 
>>by putting the
>> gallon jug (with less than a quart of hardener in it) in 
>>water at 150
>> deg.  I let the hardener get to about 130 deg for about 
>>15 minutes.  The
>> heating certainly made it more viscous, but as it cooled 
>>it got a little
>> thick again.....but not as thick as before.  I don't 
>>have much
>> confidence in the heating trick.  What did I do wrong?
>> 
>> Just for grins, I checked on two jugs of hardener which 
>>have been
>> sitting in my basement for 2 years.  The temp down there 
>>stays a pretty
>> constant 70 deg.  Much to my chagrin, both jugs seem to 
>>have solidified
>> into a crystalline mush.  Any ideas?!!
>> 
>> Brooke
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> To change your email address, visit
>> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>> 
>> Visit the gallery!  www.tvbf.org/gallery
>> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
>> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
>> Check old archives: 
>>http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
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Message: 5
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2009 20:57:20 EDT
From: KMis178813 at aol.com
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Hardening Hardener
To: reflector at tvbf.org
Message-ID: <c4a.56a4cc51.379d03f0 at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Brooke
   I have not worked on my own project for quite a while now but  I have 
been using the hardener from time to time for other projects. I found  that 
the stuff in the Hot Box gets gooey and is not very useful. The stuff at
room 
temp will recover with heat but still remains thick. I recently did  some 
projects at the factory only to notice how nice it is to work with fresh  
stuff. New stuff is much thinner and makes the cloth absorb  quicker with
less 
effort and also lighter. The cost of new hardener  compared to everything 
else we do is cheap. Order in small quantities as you  need it and it will 
always be fresh?? I'm not saying the old stuff is not  useable, just the
fact 
that I will not use the old stuff on my plane because of  it's properties. 
FWIW
       Ken
 
 
In a message dated 7/25/2009 5:39:04 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
bwolf1 at tds.net writes:

I know  this has been addressed before on this forum, but I am  having   
a problem with hardening hardener.

All of my hardener is less than  2 years old.  It is from the Velocity  
Factory.  I keep  some hardener in a 85 deg box.  I have been away from  
my  project for 3-4 months.  Now, I noticed that it is getting a little   
thick, somewhat like a gooey tar.  I  tried heating it by  putting the  
gallon jug (with less than a quart of hardener in it) in  water at 150  
deg.  I let the hardener get to about 130 deg for  about 15 minutes.   
The heating certainly made it more viscous,  but as it cooled it got a  
little thick again.....but not as thick as  before.  I don't have much  
confidence in the heating  trick.  What did I do wrong?

Just for grins, I checked on two jugs  of hardener which have been  
sitting in my basement for 2  years.  The temp down there stays a  
pretty constant 70  deg.  Much to my chagrin, both jugs seem to have  
solidified  into a crystalline mush.  Any  ideas?!!

Brooke




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Check new archives:  www.tvbf.org/pipermail
Check old archives:  http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html


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steps! 
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222585106x1201462830/aol?redir=htt
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