REFLECTOR: Franklin Magneto/inspection/priming questions

John Dibble aminetech at bluefrog.com
Tue Aug 4 13:50:40 CDT 2009


Where can I get 2 of them?

Michael Watson wrote:

> John,
>
> The PZL nozzles injects a fine misty fuel spray into the manifold, not
> enough
> to cause fuel run back to the carb. I'm in Florida now so I only need
> two to three
> seconds to get engine start on the first or second rotation. When I
> lived In New
> York, during the winter, 3 to 4 seconds would do the job.
>
> On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 8:50 AM, John Dibble <aminetech at bluefrog.com>
> wrote:
>
>      Sorry, Larry, I'm not ignoring your advice and will check if
>      I have the spray nozzle
>      and if not, look into installing one.  This will take time
>      and given that I have 700
>      hours without incident and know how to avoid fuel flowing
>      out the induction, I have
>      other higher priorities to address first.  That said, it
>      seems like priming while the
>      engine is already turning would be an even safer, if not
>      failsafe, procedure that I can
>      use immediately.  Since this procedure is not normal, I
>      wanted to solicit comments from
>      the wealth of knowledge on the reflector.
>      I prefer to think of my self as difficult, but not
>      impossible, to help.  I am curious
>      to know what you see on the ground below your air intake
>      after priming for 5 seconds
>      without turning the engine.
>
>      John
>
>
>
>      Laurence Coen wrote:
>
>      > John,
>      >
>      > I tried to help you, Mike Watson tried to help you but now
>      I think you are
>      > beyond help.
>      >
>      > Larry
>      >
>      > --------------------------------------------------
>      > From: "John Dibble" <aminetech at bluefrog.com>
>      > Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 7:40 PM
>      > To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list"
>      <reflector at tvbf.org>
>      > Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Franklin
>      Magneto/inspection/priming questions
>      >
>      > > I think I might try using the primer while the engine is
>      cranking, unless
>      > > there is a
>      > > reason not to.
>      > >
>      > > John
>      > >
>      > > Laurence Coen wrote:
>      > >
>      > >> John,
>      > >>
>      > >> I've never had a no-start.  Your description of raw gas
>      flowing out the
>      > >> induction would indicate to me that your primer has no
>      nozzle and dumps a
>      > >> solid stream of fuel into the manifold.  There are two
>      things wrong with
>      > >> that, if that is the case.  First you will dump a lot
>      of fuel in a very
>      > >> short time making it difficult to do it right.  Second,
>      liquid fuel
>      > >> doesn't
>      > >> burn but vapors do.  A nozzle both meters the fuel and
>      atomizes it which
>      > >> improves vaporization.  If you have a 1/8" pipe fitting
>      into the manifold
>      > >> with no nozzle then that is your problem, not location.
>
>      > >>
>      > >> Raw fuel running out of the induction system has been
>      the cause of quite
>      > >> a
>      > >> number of engine fires on start-up.
>      > >>
>      > >> Larry Coen
>      > >> N136LC
>      > >>
>      > >> --------------------------------------------------
>      > >> From: "John Dibble" <aminetech at bluefrog.com>
>      > >> Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 10:55 AM
>      > >> To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list"
>      <reflector at tvbf.org>
>      > >> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Franklin
>      Magneto/inspection/priming questions
>      > >>
>      > >> > Larry,
>      > >> > I have a similar prime setup.  Have you ever primed
>      and not started?
>      > >> > Mine
>      > >> > is connected
>      > >> > to the front primer port and the fuel will pour out
>      the carb if I do
>      > >> > not
>      > >> > start
>      > >> > imediately.  I'm considering moving it to the middle
>      or rear port, but
>      > >> > want to know if
>      > >> > it will do any good.
>      > >> >
>      > >> > John
>      > >> >
>      > >> > Laurence Coen wrote:
>      > >> >
>      > >> >> Jeff,
>      > >> >>
>      > >> >> I too have a Goodman engine that sat for about five
>      years.  It sounds
>      > >> >> like
>      > >> >> you took good care of it while it was in storage so
>      I don't think you
>      > >> >> need
>      > >> >> to do much but put in fresh oil and fire it up.
>      That is what I did
>      > >> >> and
>      > >> >> three years later it is running fine with
>      compressions running 79/80.
>      > >> >>
>      > >> >> Priming is something you will need.  Priming by
>      pumping the throttle
>      > >> >> with
>      > >> >> an
>      > >> >> updraft carb is an engine fire waiting to happen.
>      There are primer
>      > >> >> manifolds that mount on the bottom of the intake
>      manifolds but they're
>      > >> >> pricey.  I built my own primer system that works
>      very well.  I
>      > >> >> pressurize
>      > >> >> the fuel system with the electric pump and have a
>      solenoid valve that
>      > >> >> is
>      > >> >> operated with push button on the panel.  I inject
>      fuel into the center
>      > >> >> primer ports on both sides of the engine.  I made my
>      own injectors
>      > >> >> from
>      > >> >> 1/8"
>      > >> >> flare to 1/8" pipe elbows.  The injector nozzle is a
>      brass screw
>      > >> >> threaded
>      > >> >> into the elbow and center drilled with a #60 drill.
>      Two to five
>      > >> >> seconds
>      > >> >> prime, depending on temp, does the job.
>      > >> >>
>      > >> >> Larry Coen
>      > >> >> N136LC
>      > >> >> SE/RG Franklin/IVO
>      > >> >>
>      > >> >> --------------------------------------------------
>      > >> >> From: "Jeff Clough" <jclough48 at comcast.net>
>      > >> >> Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 8:23 AM
>      > >> >> To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list"
>      <reflector at tvbf.org>
>      > >> >> Subject: REFLECTOR: Franklin
>      Magneto/inspection/priming questions
>      > >> >>
>      > >> >> > FINALLY getting around to hooking up my Franklin
>      engine to hopefully
>      > >> >> > test fire it soon......a few questions:
>      > >> >> >  1:   I have Rose dual ignition....am planning on
>      using 1/2 of this
>      > >> >> > set
>      > >> >> > up for one set of spark plugs and a magneto for
>      the other set of
>      > >> >> > plugs....what magneto               are others
>      using and where can I
>      > >> >> > get
>      > >> >> > one????
>      > >> >> > 2:  How did others route/support their ignition
>      wires through/under
>      > >> >> > the
>      > >> >> > Franklin plenum....got any pictures you can send
>      to me off Reflector
>      > >> >> > ??
>      > >> >> > 3:  I purchased my engine new from Pat Goodman
>      back in about 1997 (I
>      > >> >> > think).....He had test run it, but it has not been
>      run since then.
>      > >> >> > I
>      > >> >> > removed the plugs              and put oil in the
>      cylinders several
>      > >> >> > time
>      > >> >> > over the ensuing years , the engine has been in a
>      hangar here in DRY
>      > >> >> > Colorado or in my heated garage in Alaska
>      in the subsequent
>      > >> >> > years....should it be inspected or have gaskets
>      replaced etc????  I
>      > >> >> > think there are some Franklin pros in Ft Collins
>      CO (about 1 hour
>      > >> >> >      away)...should I pull the engine off (again)
>      and take it to
>      > >> >> > them
>      > >> >> > for inspection/servicing or should I run it for a
>      while on my
>      > >> >> > airframe
>      > >> >> > (break it in on my                      airframe
>      while on the
>      > >> >> > ground
>      > >> >> > and then (perhaps?) have it inspected/serviced ??
>      > >> >> > 4:   I currently DO NOT have a priming
>      system......is it necessary
>      > >> >> > to
>      > >> >> > have one or will the engine start w/out it just by
>      cranking a bit
>      > >> >> > longer???  If I need a priming           system ,
>      is there a
>      > >> >> > packaged
>      > >> >> > system available??
>      > >> >> >
>      > >> >> > Thanx for all your input(s)       Jeff C
>      Brighton CO     173RG
>      > >> >> > Clamshell  IVO Franklin
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>      > >>
>      > >> >>
>      ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>      > >> >>
>      > >> >> Internal Virus Database is out of date.
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>      > >> >> Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.12.45/2141 -
>      Release Date:
>      > >> >> 5/29/2009 6:28 AM
>      > >> >
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>      > >> Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.12.45/2141 -
>      Release Date:
>      > >> 5/29/2009 6:28 AM
>      > >
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>      > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
>      > Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.12.45/2141 -
>      Release Date: 5/29/2009 6:28 AM
>
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>
>
>
> --
> Mike W.
> 1997 Velocity Elite RG
> Franklin /IVO Electric CS
> Dual GRT EFIS HX Synthetic Vision
>
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> Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.12.45/2141 - Release Date:
> 5/29/2009 6:28 AM
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