REFLECTOR: New Topic: Nitrogen filled tires

Me You murray_p2003 at hotmail.com
Wed Apr 29 20:24:43 CDT 2009 

I have used nitrogen in tires of other vehicles. My experience has been that the tires (believe it or not) lasted longer with an increased tire life of about 25%. The tire runs cooler and seems to have less "squiggle" at tire speeds anf heavy cornering (in cars). I do think that the nitrogen leaks easier from the tire and the mating surfaces and valve stems have to ate together bettter, but this wasn't a significant issue. Using nitrogen in plane tires, I think is practical unless you are doing a lot or sideways landing. I don't think the benefits of using nitrogen in plane tire is worth the extra time, trouble and money. I think plane tires wear out much sooner due to the rubber compound than any other issue. The compound is softer and tackier than car tires for traction and that any benefit of using notrogen would be cost effective.
 


Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 08:48:53 -0400
From: cjensen at dts9000.com
To: reflector at tvbf.org
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: New Topic: Nitrogen filled tires




The reason the NASCAR guys use nitrogen is car handling is highly sensitive to tire pressure.  1 or 2 psi will turn a go-fast into a go-crash.  Nitrogen has a lower co-efficient of expansion, so the tire pressure is more stable with nitrogen....not by much, but they look for every edge.

Chuck Jensen 

-----Original Message-----
From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org]On Behalf Of Gary Stull
Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 8:05 PM
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: New Topic: Nitrogen filled tires


In my opinion it's a bunch of hype. As an airline mechanic I know airline tires are filled with Nitrogen for 1 reason, moisture. It freezes at altitude when it's minus 60 degrees, causing a vibration when landing. Nitrogen has no moisture, unlike air. Air is about 80% Nitrogen, so why spend good money for only slightly purer gas to fill your tires? Spend your money on other things which will enhance your flying qualities. Just my 2 cents.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: SlvEgl99 at aol.com 
To: reflector at tvbf.org 
Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 3:28 PM
Subject: REFLECTOR: New Topic: Nitrogen filled tires


 
Has anyone any experience with inflating tires with nitrogen instead of normal air?
 
Robert Wood

In a message dated 4/28/2009 3:25:54 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, michalk at awpi.com writes:
You should mention how much in $$$ to replace those blades, and how much 
time for the replacement procedure.

aminetech at bluefrog.com wrote:
> Franklin Engine.  I have a total of 670 hours.  However 300 hours ago I delaminated the prop ends from a landing on a really rough grass strip that was more dirt than grass.  I replaced with new blades and delaminated ends on 2 of the new blades getting out of that strip.  I then repaired by filling the ends with structural adhesive and clamping them together, followed by a little sanding to restore the airfoil shape.  They have since worked as good as new.  The blades are very tough and should last a long time if I can keep them off the ground.
>
> John
>
> --- lesliemh at earthlink.net wrote:
>
> From: Leslie Huttunen <lesliemh at earthlink.net>
> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Ivo
> Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 11:14:58 -0700
>
> Hi John,  Thanks for your experience regarding the IVO.  If you could  
> mention the engine type and number of hours on the prop, that would be  
> very helpful.
>
> Leslie Huttunen
> On Apr 28, 2009, at 7:44 AM, <aminetech at bluefrog.com> wrote:
>
>   
>> Guess it's time for someone who has experience using the IVO to  
>> comment....  Yes, it's very important to check the bolt torque  
>> hourly for the first 5 hours and until it becomes stable.  When you  
>> first mount the blades, the torque will get loose with the plane  
>> just sitting overnight.  After 20 hours or so the torque holds well,  
>> and you pretty much can forget about it, but in spite of almost 500  
>> hours with no problems, I still check it once in a while.  When I  
>> bought my plane, different blades had been installed and the torque  
>> checking frequency was not well explained to me.  After 2 hours of  
>> test flying (and tightening), I flew 4.5 hours to home.  Upon  
>> arrival, all 3 tapes were broken (it was aluminum tape, which is the  
>> wrong tape as it gives a false positive indication) and all bolts  
>> had about 1/2 turn of looseness.  I hadn't felt any vibration and  
>> there was no damage around the bolt holes which is where any damage  
>> would be.  The builder of my plane had changed out the 6" cr!
>> ush plate for a 7" one.  Im sure that must help in securing the  
>> blades.
>>
>> As far as 4 cyl Lycomings are concerned, I recall posts that state  
>> that if the engine is unbalanced, then MT should not be used either.
>>
>> I believe anyone with experince with the IVO could safely test, or  
>> oversee a test, on a Lycoming.  Or maybe we just need more data from  
>> the Lycoming(s) using the IVO.  However, I think IVO would be  
>> unwilling to sell to any engine off their approved list.  The last  
>> time I spoke with them, I got the impression that the owner(s) were  
>> focused on other endeavors, so perhaps they might want to sell to  
>> someone who was willing to expand the envelope.
>>
>> The IVO is a great prop and I wouldn't consider anything else.
>>
>> John
>>
>>
>> --- scott at tnstaafl.net wrote:
>>
>> From: Scott Derrick <scott at tnstaafl.net>
>> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
>> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Ivo
>> Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 07:24:37 -0600
>>
>> Kurt, I agree.   Stupid is as stupid does.
>>
>> But installing an IVO on a IO360, when IVO specifically says NOT.   
>> Just
>> because I think they are playing it safe?  :-\
>>
>> Its difficult to believe that IVO would ignore over 95% of the market
>> because they have a maintenance issue.   Though the aviation  
>> industry is
>> very unforgiving when it come to failures, and maybe they got scared
>> they would loose the tiny portion they served because a few people  
>> would
>> not perform higher than normal maintenance procedures.
>>
>> The Bonanza almost died an early death because people didn't keep the
>> control surfaces balanced and in rig to a higher standard than most
>> other GA planes required up to that period in time. Just a maintenance
>> issue.
>>
>> I have heard that the initial fix to prevent propeller  
>> deconstruction in
>> flight was the repeated checking of torque at prescribed intervals and
>> some kind of tape that would reveal movement where movement was bad.
>> This tape must absolutely be checked  prior to every flight.  Seems
>> simple enough, but knowing some pilots I know it would fall off the
>> pre-flight list after 15 or 20 negative checks.
>>
>> To my mind the problem is that the failure mode is catastrophic and  
>> the
>> possibility more than remote if the pilot is not almost perfect in the
>> maintenance of the propeller.  I'm speaking of an installation on a
>> Lycosaur boxer engine.   The smoother output installations being  
>> immune
>> to the problem.
>>
>> Personally I would be thrilled if IVO perfected a solution for my 520
>> that was proven and didn't require a life and death inspection prior  
>> to
>> every flight.
>>
>> Scott
>>
>> nmflyer1 at aol.com wrote:
>>     
>>> Myself, I find a big span between bulletproof... and stupidproof. ...
>>>
>>> don't follow the 'structions... Here's your sign.
>>>
>>> KW
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Scott Derrick <scott at tnstaafl.net>
>>> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
>>> Sent: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 9:48 pm
>>> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Ivo
>>>
>>> I'm afraid I fall into the "Bullet Proof" crowd.
>>>
>>> You shed a blade and the options rapidly(within seconds) go from  
>>> few to
>>> none.
>>>
>>> Scott
>>>
>>> nmflyer1 at aol.com <mailto:nmflyer1 at aol.com> wrote:
>>>       
>>>> One thing to note here. As far as I am aware, the only IVO's to fail
>>>> have been due to people not following the mandatory instructions of
>>>> the manufacturer. If you follow the rules, the prop appears to  
>>>> have a
>>>> long life and good performance. I asked Mark Machado  how he liked  
>>>> the
>>>> performance of the IVO on their 173FGE. He told me that the takeoff
>>>> thrust was a cross between frightening and exhilarating.
>>>>
>>>> The prop definitely doesn't fall into the realm of put it on and
>>>> forget about it. Personally I believe that a little extra  
>>>> attention is
>>>> worth the cost, performance, and company backing.
>>>>
>>>> Kurt
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Dave Philipsen <velocity at davebiz.com <mailto:velocity at davebiz.com 
>>>>         
>>>> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org  
>>>> <mailto:reflector at tvbf.org>>
>>>> Sent: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 9:17 pm
>>>> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Running without prop
>>>>
>>>> Brian Michalk wrote:
>>>>         
>>>>> Okay, I'll jump in here...
>>>>>
>>>>> What I wonder, is if one took the rotational inertia of the MT, and
>>>>> duplicated it by adding a plate to the IVO to increase the
>>>>>           
>>>> rotational > inertia, would the IVO still fail? There's no question
>>>> that the > pulses on the IO360 are larger than on the Franklin.  
>>>> Maybe
>>>> increasing > the inertia of the system could reduce the negative
>>>> torque pulses?
>>>> Just thinking aloud here and from my experience with automobile
>>>> engines. Would a device similar to the harmonic balancer on an auto
>>>> engine work? As I remember, it is essentially a fairly massive iron
>>>> ring with some kind of rubber sandwich between it and the hub. I  
>>>> think
>>>> the rubber absorbs some of the harmonics.
>>>>
>>>> Dave Philipsen
>>>> Velocity STD FG
>>>> N83DP
>>>>
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>
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