REFLECTOR: Reflector Digest, Vol 53, Issue 4 Trim Spring fix
Mark Riley
anriley at comcast.net
Thu Oct 2 21:30:11 CDT 2008
I also ran out of nose down trim on my standard Elite RG. The fix was not to
change the spring but to decrease the angle of attack of the canard by one
popsicle stick at the trailing edge. This was the fix recommended by the
factory and it worked. I simply relieved the area under the forward half of
the canard, waxed the bolts, added micro to the bolt holes and aft half of
the fuselage under the canard and then a little touch up paint. Problem
completely solved in two days and no money.
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Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 8:21 PM
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Subject: Reflector Digest, Vol 53, Issue 4
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Today's Topics:
1. (no subject) (gibbons)
2. Re: (no subject) (John Dibble)
3. Re: (no subject) (steve korney)
4. Re: (no subject) (Al Gietzen)
5. Sales Contract (PUSHERPILOT at wmconnect.com)
6. Re: N44VF off airport landing (Scott Derrick)
7. Re: Sales Contract (Scott Derrick)
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Message: 1
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 11:05:06 -0700
From: "gibbons" <gibbons at as.net>
Subject: REFLECTOR: (no subject)
To: <reflector at tvbf.org>
Message-ID: <000501c924b9$68e11160$6601a8c0 at desktop1>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Elevator spring strength. Can you put more ply's on the spring to help
with trimming the nose down. If so how many ply's? Would that be uni,
bid. Would the plys be on the inside or outside of the springs?
Thanks
Barry
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Message: 2
Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2008 15:13:08 -0500
From: John Dibble <aminetech at bluefrog.com>
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: (no subject)
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
Message-ID: <48E52B54.E6596CC7 at bluefrog.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I had my trim motor relay fail during descent and had to fight the trim
spring during approach and landing. I landed at 90 kn and it took all
the strength I could muster. I wouldn't want a stiffer spring.
Reversing the sparrow strainer will provide more trim than you will
need.
John
gibbons wrote:
> Elevator spring strength. Can you put more ply's on the spring to help
> with trimming the nose down. If so how many ply's? Would that be uni,
> bid. Would the plys be on the inside or outside of the springs?
>
> Thanks
> Barry
>
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Message: 3
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 20:28:18 +0000
From: steve korney <s_korney at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: (no subject)
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
Message-ID: <BAY108-W2642418611BCCE3459F60E73D0 at phx.gbl>
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John....
Your stirring a hornets nest....lol...
Best... Steve
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 15:13:08 -0500
From: aminetech at bluefrog.com
To: reflector at tvbf.org
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: (no subject)
I had my trim motor relay fail during descent and had to fight the trim
spring during approach and landing. I landed at 90 kn and it took
all the strength I could muster. I wouldn't want a stiffer spring.
Reversing the sparrow strainer will provide more trim than you will need.
John
gibbons wrote:
Elevator spring strength. Can you put
more ply's on the spring to help with trimming the nose down. If
so how many ply's? Would that be uni, bid. Would the plys be on the inside
or outside of the springs?
Thanks
Barry
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Message: 4
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 15:40:18 -0800
From: "Al Gietzen" <ALVentures at cox.net>
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: (no subject)
To: "'Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list'"
<reflector at tvbf.org>
Message-ID: <3EDA207D92B14ED8AEA078492117E7BD at BigAl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Elevator spring strength. Can you put more ply's on the spring to help with
trimming the nose down. If so how many ply's? Would that be uni, bid. Would
the plys be on the inside or outside of the springs?
Thanks
Barry
Barry;
FWIW; maybe the question is 'why don't you have enough down trim?' My
criteria on the spring was that you had to be able to get nearly full
elevator when the trim motor was run to the full extent in the opposite
direction. This being a safety factor in the case where the motor runs to
its limit for unknown reasons. I now recall two incidents reported over the
recent years where this did occur.
So that meant for me that I had to trim (as in cut) the trim spring narrower
- down to I guess about 2" width on my SE.
When I first began flying, I found that at the high speed end I didn't have
enough nose down trim. I also found that the stall speed was too high. The
conclusion was there was too much canard lift; and yeah, I had used the
factory incidence gauge on a WingCo canard - having not been told that the
WingCo canard needed a bit less incidence. Reducing the canard incidence by
2 stir stick thickness under the leading edge of the incidence gauge solved
the nose down trim problem, and brought the stall speed down to about 70
Kts.
BTW; I think all small dimensions on these kits are measured in stir stick
thicknesses:-).
Best,
Al
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Message: 5
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 18:42:17 EDT
From: PUSHERPILOT at wmconnect.com
Subject: REFLECTOR: Sales Contract
To: reflector at tvbf.org
Message-ID: <c10.468f360c.3616a849 at wmconnect.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Does anyone have a sales contract for an experimental aircraft? I recall
seeing one somewhere that said "aircraft was built by an amateur builder,
etc."
but I can't find it now.
Mel Bina N14B
STD RG For Sale </HTML>
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Message: 6
Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2008 16:55:15 -0600
From: Scott Derrick <scott at tnstaafl.net>
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: N44VF off airport landing
To: Brett Ferrell <reflector at velocityxl.com>, Velocity Aircraft Owners
and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
Message-ID: <48E55153.6040408 at tnstaafl.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
That was one excellent landing by Elizabeth!! She saved both your lives
and the plane! Major kudo's to her!
You should be able to tell what happened to the oil line by examining
the end. Interesting to see what the problem was.
Scott
Brett Ferrell wrote:
> I know that folks have been anxious to hear about our off-airport landing
this weekend. You guys have been really great with all of the well-wishs
and kind words, and although it's been a very hectic few days I did want to
get the information out to folks as quickly as we reasonably could.
>
> First up, let me say that I'm sorry for any negative affect that our
incident has on our Velocity community, we're aware that we don't exist in
isolation. Too that end, I'll mention that the FAA did downgrade this to an
incident, so that's good news, and said that they did not believe that any
'action' was warranted or some such, which I took to mean we were in pretty
good shape. Second, let me say that Elizabeth did a great job of flying us
to the road, and I feel that this is directly related to the excellent
training she received, first from the factory, and then with Dave Bertram
who did her high power XL and EFIS transition training. I really recommend
folks avail themselves of these resources, you are worth the investment.
>
> Next I'll say that we did get, on the whole, decent reporting. Maybe
that's because we landed in Mayberry, RFD, but it was refreshing. You can
check out the stories below if you'd like.
> http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2008809280516
> http://www.fox41.com/Global/story.asp?S=9085833
> http://www.wesh.com/news/17574062/detail.html
>
> So, here are the top line facts, and if you'd like to read a fully
accounting you can do so at our website:
> http://n44vf.velocityxl.com/incident.php
>
> While in cruise flight at about 160 kts and 2,500' MSL below a solid
overcast layer en route to Rough River, we blew the hard tubed oil line to
the nose cooler at a 3-way valve. That valve allows a second cooler that
recircs cabin air in the winter to be activated. The cause of that failure
is not yet known, but the oil pressure immediately went to 0 psi, and the
cabin started to fill with hot oil. We weren't talking to anyone, and
weren't able to declare an emergency before landing on Highway 3 in Otisco,
Indiana, a two lane country road. We landed without major incident, but did
strike a a reflector street post while avoiding stopped traffic on rollout.
The engine as running at shutdown, and we believe the only damage to be
where the pole struck the copilot wing, mid-section, which we hopeful will
be a straightforward repair. I encourage folks to read the longer account
to know more, and to see what an APRS tracker (as written about in a recent
Kitplanes article) ca
n!
> offer, as well as our impressions and recollections from the experience.
>
> Brett
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------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2008 18:21:14 -0600
From: Scott Derrick <scott at tnstaafl.net>
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Sales Contract
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
Message-ID: <48E5657A.2030805 at tnstaafl.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
http://tnstaafl.net/canards/salesagreement.doc
Scott
PUSHERPILOT at wmconnect.com wrote:
> Does anyone have a sales contract for an experimental aircraft? I
> recall seeing one somewhere that said "aircraft was built by an amateur
> builder, etc." but I can't find it now.
>
> Mel Bina N14B
> STD RG For Sale
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> To change your email address, visit
http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>
> Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
> Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
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