REFLECTOR: sparrow strainer(ss)
Scott Derrick
scott at tnstaafl.net
Thu Nov 13 09:32:34 CST 2008
I would think so.. The trim spring definitely provides some resistance
to flutter.
Lawrence J. Epstein, MD wrote:
> Would that also risk Elevator Flutter?
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org]
> *On Behalf Of *Alex Balic
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 13, 2008 9:59 AM
> *To:* 'Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list'
> *Subject:* Re: REFLECTOR: sparrow strainer(ss)
>
>
>
> I don’t think that you will be able to fly without the spring in place-
> it positions the elevator- (flap) and without it, you would never be
> able to fly hands off- even with a perfectly designed sparrow strainer
> the elevator would be fairly unstable- remember this is not a standard
> elevator control surface- it is almost always under aerodynamic load.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org]
> *On Behalf Of *KMis178813 at aol.com
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 12, 2008 9:01 PM
> *To:* reflector at tvbf.org
> *Subject:* Re: REFLECTOR: sparrow strainer(ss)
>
>
>
> I have not had a SS on my plane (N2087M SE/SUV) for 900 Hours and do
> not plan on putting it on now Or on my next plane. Plenty of trim in
> flight, with or without passengers. I will only put it on to fix a
> problem. If you don't know it is a problem what are you trying to fix??
> Although I am sure some do need the fix, why else would they have put it
> in the kit? Hmmm! :)
>
> Just a note. When I bought Shazam (N173EX SE/RG) She had a custom
> made carbon fiber trim spring that was supposed to be the thing we all
> needed. When I did the inspection on the plane I replicated a runaway
> trim actuator to the ends. I must say that there is no way that one
> could have held the elevator for more then a minute short of using both
> hands and a foot. So be careful designing your own stuff, think all the
> scenarios through carefully. I installed the factory design spring and
> it worked great.
>
> Ken
>
>
>
> In a message dated 11/12/2008 8:33:29 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> aminetech at bluefrog.com writes:
>
> I was wondering if that would be possible. As I understand it, the
> reason for the SS
> was to create a need for trim because the elevator itself doesn't
> need much trim and,
> according to the factory, that resulted in instability. I'm
> thinking that the trim
> spring should provide stability by limiting the elevator movement.
> Maybe I'll try
> removing the SS. Has anyone else flown without it?
>
> John
>
> Darrell & Nora Kufalk wrote:
>
> > Here's an idea I haven't herd yet. How about removing the sparrow
> strainer.
> > This is what I did. In my XL-RG, I made my first flight without
> it and it
> > trimmed out perfectly. Then throughout my flight testing as I
> added weight,
> > it always trimmed out fine. When I fly solo, I start with the
> elevator
> > about 1" below the training edge. With 2 people up front about
> 1-1/2" below
> > and at full weight about 2" below. Once flying, very little trim
> is needed
> > no matter what speed I'm going. Usually 1/2 second button press
> is more
> > than enough. Again I have never installed the sparrow strainer in
> my 70
> > hours on the plane. I have no planes to even try it.
> >
> > Darrell
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org
> [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
> > Behalf Of Laurence Coen
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 11:11 AM
> > To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
> > Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: sparrow strainer(ss)
> >
> > Chuck,
> >
> > I have tried it both ways and wound up with the original factory
> > configuration. There are several factors that will effect how it
> works for
> > you. Weight and balance, canard incidence and sparrow strainer
> incidence
> > all have an effect. Here's how it worked for me. Solo high speed
> cruise I
> > ran out of down trim and had to apply a slight forward pressure on the
> > stick. With a front passenger, I had no trim problems. I then
> turned the
> > sparrow strainer over and found no problems solo. However with a
> front seat
> >
> > passenger, I had had to hold back pressure on approach because I
> ran out of
> > trim in the other direction. I haven't gotten to it yet but I plan to
> > reduce the angle of attack of the sparrow strainer to see if I can
> achieve a
> >
> > happy medium.
> >
> > Larry Coen
> > N136LC
> > SE/RG Franklin-IVO
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------
> > From: "Chuck Harbert" <c.harbert1 at verizon.net>
> > Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 3:48 PM
> > To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
> > Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: sparrow strainer(ss)
> >
> > > I've had my ss installed per factory instructions, but I've now
> wondered
> > > if
> > > I should switch it to upside down based on some of the recent
> comments.
> > > However, I'm also concerned about losing the downward force if
> the trim
> > > spring were to break based upon a recent posting about how
> difficult it
> > > was
> > > to fly and land with it broken.
> > >
> > > I've got the usual V problem of having to have the elevator
> trimmed down
> > > about an inch at high speed, so if I flip it over will I have to
> trim it
> > > more to offset the upward force? Has anyone tried this to see what
> > > happens?
> > >
> > > Chuck H
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Hiroo Umeno" <humeno at microsoft.com>
> > > To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list"
> <reflector at tvbf.org>
> > > Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 1:03 PM
> > > Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: amount of trim
> > >
> > >
> > >> It was not me (though now that you mention it, seems like a
> great idea).
> > >>
> > >> I could probably embed a simple linear actuator inside the
> elevator to
> > >> change the incidence angles of that thing and get rid of the
> fiberglass
> > >> spring...
> > >>
> > >> Squirrels are running now.
> > >>
> > >> Hiroo
> > >>
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org
> [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
> > >> Behalf Of Brian Michalk
> > >> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 7:07 AM
> > >> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
> > >> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: amount of trim
> > >>
> > >> Didn't Hiroo Humeno make an autopilot tab out of the sparrow
> strainer?
> > >>
> > >> I wonder how that worked out?
> > >>
> > >> John Dibble wrote:
> > >>> When installed per the factory recommendation, the sparrow
> exerts a
> > >>> downward force on the elevator, which must be countered by the
> trim
> > >>> spring. The faster you fly, the greater the force. That's
> why you
> > >>> run out of trim at high speeds (IAS). When reversed, the sparrow
> > >>> exerts an upward force, working with the trim spring,
> significantly
> > >>> expanding trim capability.
> > >>> Actually, at the risk of complicating this, I believe the
> sparrow, in
> > >>> the reversed position provides more than the necessary force to
> > >>> overcome the force of the airstream on the elevator and the trim
> > >>> spring is actually now exerting a downward force on the
> elevator, but
> > >>> I don't know how to prove that.
> > >>>
> > >>> John
> > >>>
> > >>> Lou Stedman wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>> Thanks John. I always like to have friends drop by but. I am
> a bit
> > >>>> confused, why would I reverse the sparrow? I am not knogleable on
> > >>>> that subject. Lou Stedman
> > >>>> Velocity N7044Q
> > >>>> Olean, NY
> > >>>>
> > >>>> ----- Original Message -----
> > >>>> *From:* John Dibble <mailto:aminetech at bluefrog.com>
> > >>>> *To:* Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
> > >>>> <mailto:reflector at tvbf.org>
> > >>>> *Sent:* Monday, November 10, 2008 7:28 AM
> > >>>> *Subject:* Re: REFLECTOR: amount of trim
> > >>>> Lou,
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I had the same problem as you. Right now I'm at the new
> Dundee
> > >>>> airport 17NK. If you're interested I can stop by and you
> can fly
> > >>>> with me and see that reversing the sparrow strainer has
> no effect
> > >>>> on stability.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> John
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Lou Stedman wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Thanks Gary. Mine is a little different. When I am solo,
> I don't
> > >>>>> have enough down trim. I did a new W&B and found out I need
> > >>>>> thirty pounds of ballast in the nose when solo. That
> helps a lot
> > >>>>> with needed down trim but I can't help but think I need some
> > >>>>> down trim. What model are you flying? Lou Stedman
> > >>>>> Velocity N7044Q
> > >>>>> Olean, NY
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> > >>>>> *From:* Gary Stull <mailto:gstull at tampabay.rr.com>
> > >>>>> *To:* Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
> > >>>>> <mailto:reflector at tvbf.org>
> > >>>>> *Sent:* Sunday, November 09, 2008 10:17 PM
> > >>>>> *Subject:* Re: REFLECTOR: amount of trim
> > >>>>> I have much more up then down trim. In my case I
> never need
> > >>>>> any down trim even flying solo, always some up trim
> required.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> > >>>>> *From:* Lou Stedman
> <mailto:stedmanlou at roadrunner.com>
> > >>>>> *To:* Reflector Velocity <mailto:reflector at tvbf.org>
> > >>>>> *Sent:* Friday, November 07, 2008 5:20 PM
> > >>>>> *Subject:* REFLECTOR: amount of trim
> > >>>>> I have looked through my manual but do not find
> > >>>>> information on how much up and down trim I am
> suppose to
> > >>>>> have. It does say that the elevator should have
> 24-26
> > >>>>> degrees of down and 20 degrees of up. But it
> does not
> > >>>>> mention anything about trim. Can someone shed
> some light
> > >>>>> on this? I have lots of up trim but almost no
> down trim.
> > >>>>> Lou Stedman
> > >>>>> Velocity N7044Q
> > >>>>> Olean, NY
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >>>>
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> >
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> > Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.8.5/1755 - Release Date:
> 10/29/2008 5:27 PM
>
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