REFLECTOR: sparrow strainer(ss)
KMis178813 at aol.com
KMis178813 at aol.com
Wed Nov 12 21:01:25 CST 2008
I have not had a SS on my plane (N2087M SE/SUV) for 900 Hours and do not
plan on putting it on now Or on my next plane. Plenty of trim in flight, with or
without passengers. I will only put it on to fix a problem. If you don't
know it is a problem what are you trying to fix?? Although I am sure some do
need the fix, why else would they have put it in the kit? Hmmm! :)
Just a note. When I bought Shazam (N173EX SE/RG) She had a custom made
carbon fiber trim spring that was supposed to be the thing we all needed. When
I did the inspection on the plane I replicated a runaway trim actuator to
the ends. I must say that there is no way that one could have held the elevator
for more then a minute short of using both hands and a foot. So be careful
designing your own stuff, think all the scenarios through carefully. I
installed the factory design spring and it worked great.
Ken
In a message dated 11/12/2008 8:33:29 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
aminetech at bluefrog.com writes:
I was wondering if that would be possible. As I understand it, the reason
for the SS
was to create a need for trim because the elevator itself doesn't need much
trim and,
according to the factory, that resulted in instability. I'm thinking that
the trim
spring should provide stability by limiting the elevator movement. Maybe
I'll try
removing the SS. Has anyone else flown without it?
John
Darrell & Nora Kufalk wrote:
> Here's an idea I haven't herd yet. How about removing the sparrow
strainer.
> This is what I did. In my XL-RG, I made my first flight without it and it
> trimmed out perfectly. Then throughout my flight testing as I added
weight,
> it always trimmed out fine. When I fly solo, I start with the elevator
> about 1" below the training edge. With 2 people up front about 1-1/2"
below
> and at full weight about 2" below. Once flying, very little trim is needed
> no matter what speed I'm going. Usually 1/2 second button press is more
> than enough. Again I have never installed the sparrow strainer in my 70
> hours on the plane. I have no planes to even try it.
>
> Darrell
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
> Behalf Of Laurence Coen
> Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 11:11 AM
> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: sparrow strainer(ss)
>
> Chuck,
>
> I have tried it both ways and wound up with the original factory
> configuration. There are several factors that will effect how it works for
> you. Weight and balance, canard incidence and sparrow strainer incidence
> all have an effect. Here's how it worked for me. Solo high speed cruise I
> ran out of down trim and had to apply a slight forward pressure on the
> stick. With a front passenger, I had no trim problems. I then turned the
> sparrow strainer over and found no problems solo. However with a front
seat
>
> passenger, I had had to hold back pressure on approach because I ran out of
> trim in the other direction. I haven't gotten to it yet but I plan to
> reduce the angle of attack of the sparrow strainer to see if I can achieve
a
>
> happy medium.
>
> Larry Coen
> N136LC
> SE/RG Franklin-IVO
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Chuck Harbert" <c.harbert1 at verizon.net>
> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 3:48 PM
> To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: sparrow strainer(ss)
>
> > I've had my ss installed per factory instructions, but I've now wondered
> > if
> > I should switch it to upside down based on some of the recent comments.
> > However, I'm also concerned about losing the downward force if the trim
> > spring were to break based upon a recent posting about how difficult it
> > was
> > to fly and land with it broken.
> >
> > I've got the usual V problem of having to have the elevator trimmed down
> > about an inch at high speed, so if I flip it over will I have to trim it
> > more to offset the upward force? Has anyone tried this to see what
> > happens?
> >
> > Chuck H
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Hiroo Umeno" <humeno at microsoft.com>
> > To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
> > Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 1:03 PM
> > Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: amount of trim
> >
> >
> >> It was not me (though now that you mention it, seems like a great idea).
> >>
> >> I could probably embed a simple linear actuator inside the elevator to
> >> change the incidence angles of that thing and get rid of the fiberglass
> >> spring...
> >>
> >> Squirrels are running now.
> >>
> >> Hiroo
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
> >> Behalf Of Brian Michalk
> >> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 7:07 AM
> >> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
> >> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: amount of trim
> >>
> >> Didn't Hiroo Humeno make an autopilot tab out of the sparrow strainer?
> >>
> >> I wonder how that worked out?
> >>
> >> John Dibble wrote:
> >>> When installed per the factory recommendation, the sparrow exerts a
> >>> downward force on the elevator, which must be countered by the trim
> >>> spring. The faster you fly, the greater the force. That's why you
> >>> run out of trim at high speeds (IAS). When reversed, the sparrow
> >>> exerts an upward force, working with the trim spring, significantly
> >>> expanding trim capability.
> >>> Actually, at the risk of complicating this, I believe the sparrow, in
> >>> the reversed position provides more than the necessary force to
> >>> overcome the force of the airstream on the elevator and the trim
> >>> spring is actually now exerting a downward force on the elevator, but
> >>> I don't know how to prove that.
> >>>
> >>> John
> >>>
> >>> Lou Stedman wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Thanks John. I always like to have friends drop by but. I am a bit
> >>>> confused, why would I reverse the sparrow? I am not knogleable on
> >>>> that subject. Lou Stedman
> >>>> Velocity N7044Q
> >>>> Olean, NY
> >>>>
> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>> *From:* John Dibble <mailto:aminetech at bluefrog.com>
> >>>> *To:* Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
> >>>> <mailto:reflector at tvbf.org>
> >>>> *Sent:* Monday, November 10, 2008 7:28 AM
> >>>> *Subject:* Re: REFLECTOR: amount of trim
> >>>> Lou,
> >>>>
> >>>> I had the same problem as you. Right now I'm at the new Dundee
> >>>> airport 17NK. If you're interested I can stop by and you can fly
> >>>> with me and see that reversing the sparrow strainer has no effect
> >>>> on stability.
> >>>>
> >>>> John
> >>>>
> >>>> Lou Stedman wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Thanks Gary. Mine is a little different. When I am solo, I don't
> >>>>> have enough down trim. I did a new W&B and found out I need
> >>>>> thirty pounds of ballast in the nose when solo. That helps a lot
> >>>>> with needed down trim but I can't help but think I need some
> >>>>> down trim. What model are you flying? Lou Stedman
> >>>>> Velocity N7044Q
> >>>>> Olean, NY
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>> *From:* Gary Stull <mailto:gstull at tampabay.rr.com>
> >>>>> *To:* Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
> >>>>> <mailto:reflector at tvbf.org>
> >>>>> *Sent:* Sunday, November 09, 2008 10:17 PM
> >>>>> *Subject:* Re: REFLECTOR: amount of trim
> >>>>> I have much more up then down trim. In my case I never need
> >>>>> any down trim even flying solo, always some up trim required.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>> *From:* Lou Stedman <mailto:stedmanlou at roadrunner.com>
> >>>>> *To:* Reflector Velocity <mailto:reflector at tvbf.org>
> >>>>> *Sent:* Friday, November 07, 2008 5:20 PM
> >>>>> *Subject:* REFLECTOR: amount of trim
> >>>>> I have looked through my manual but do not find
> >>>>> information on how much up and down trim I am suppose to
> >>>>> have. It does say that the elevator should have 24-26
> >>>>> degrees of down and 20 degrees of up. But it does not
> >>>>> mention anything about trim. Can someone shed some light
> >>>>> on this? I have lots of up trim but almost no down trim.
> >>>>> Lou Stedman
> >>>>> Velocity N7044Q
> >>>>> Olean, NY
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
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