REFLECTOR: Velocity video

Thu Jan 31 09:01:57 CST 2008

The main wing should NEVER stall before the canard!!

-----Original Message-----
From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
Behalf Of John Dibble
Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2008 9:55 AM
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Velocity video

My understanding for the standard fuselage is 70 kn at gross weight, or
heavy weight up front and 60 kn solo/low fuel.  In practice my stall speed
is around 60 kn either solo or 2 up front.  I don't have much experience
landing at full load.  I know my pitot is accurate in climb out at 1500-2000
fpm. 
In the flare, the 55 kn refers to the main wing.  The canard still flies at
that speed and I don't know how low the stall speed is.  There are two
factors that lower the canard stall speed.  First is ground effect which
lowers the stall speed.  The second, I believe, is the elevator.  It seems
to me that with the elevator in the down (trim up) position, it acts like a
flap and reduces the canard stall speed.  The further down the elevator is,
the lower the stall speed should be.  I don't know how far down my elevator
is in the flare because I haven't been able to look while landing.  I know
it is further down at full stop than if I landed at a higher speed. 

John 

lawrence epstein wrote: 

A canard stall speed <55 knots for an SE is much lower than I would expect.
I thought that the standard wing/fuselage was expected to mush around 70 and
the large wing/standard fuselage ("173") @ 60 knots. AM I confusing knots
with MPH? 

Is it possible that this is pitot error at low speed/hight AOA? 

Larry Epstein 
173 FGE

  _____  

Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 22:36:36 -0600 
From: aminetech at bluefrog.com 
To: reflector at tvbf.org 
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Velocity video 

OK.  I should begin with the pattern as I feel everything adds up when it
comes to a good landing.  First of all, keep the pitch trimmed for hands off
throughout the final leg.  Speed brakes aren't needed.  If you're high on
final, just pull back on the stick and slow down to stall speed.  The
initial nose up attitude will make it seem like you're going to fly to the
next county, but in several seconds you will be pleasantly surprised to be
on the glide slope.  My power off stall is a mush, so I barely notice
anything when stalling on final.  However an observer on the ground told me
it looked like I was falling out of the sky.  My stall speed is 60 kn and I
have found no problems being at 60 kn on short final/round out.  After round
out I let it sink down, holding it a ft or less off the ground.  At 55 kn,
the mains slowly sink and gently touch down with no pilot input while the
canard keeps flying (guess that is a deep stall, but not a problem when
you're close to the ground).  Then I nudge the stick forward to get the nose
coming down and it is real easy to lower it gently to the ground. 
As far as the canard stalling and the nose slamming the ground, I have had
many hard nose landings at higher speeds.  I think the main cause is not
having the pitch trimmed for hands off at all times during the landing
procedure.  The trim spring greatly limits how much you can move the
elevator and makes it difficult to let the canard down easy, making it seem
like the canard stalled when in fact you just couldn't pull back as fast or
much as necessary.  I will caution when in LEVEL flight, not to trim the
pitch for hands off at a speed of less than 80 kn as that could result in a
deep stall.  However when in the flare, trimming at slower speeds is OK,
since you want the mains to stall first. 
Keep in mind that I fly an SERG.  The XLs may behave differently. John 
cgputney at peoplepc.com wrote: 

 John Dibble, please detail your landing flare procedure for us!    Thanks. 

----- Original Message -----

From:John Dibble <mailto:aminetech at bluefrog.com> 

To: Velocity Aircraft <mailto:reflector at tvbf.org>  Owners and Builders list

Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2008 9:31 AM

Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Velocity video

 Steve, It took me almost 400 hours of flying to learn that not only can I
land my SERG in a flare, but that it is 5 times easier and 10 times softer
landing. 
John 
steve korney wrote: 

Guess that dispelled the myth that you can't land a Velocity in a
flair............ Best... Steve 

  _____  

From: johnt at comp-sol.com 
To: reflector at tvbf.org 
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 10:35:07 -0600 
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Velocity video 

This is one of those 'big smile' videos!

Thanks for sharing.

John

  _____  

From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On Behalf Of
Al Gietzen [ALVentures at cox.net] 
Sent: Friday, January 25, 2008 10:54 PM 
To: reflector 
Subject: REFLECTOR: Velocity video

For those who like; I'll share some video made by my son (with my 5 yr old
grandson who's nuts about airplanes).  It includes a takeoff, flyby, touch
and go, and landing; lasts about 8 minutes, and is 20MB non-streaming, so
high speed access will certainly be a plus.

http://photofu.com/darryl/Velocity_Vignette.wmv

Enjoy; 

Al

  _____  

Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your HotmailR-get your
"fix". Check it out. <http://www.msnmobilefix.com/Default.aspx>  

  _____  

_______________________________________________
To change your email address, visit
http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
 <http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector>  
Visit the gallery!  www.tvbf.org/gallery
user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html

  _____  

_______________________________________________ 
To change your email address, visit
http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector Visit the gallery!
www.tvbf.org/gallery 
user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose 
Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail 
Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html

  _____  

_______________________________________________
To change your email address, visit
http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
 <http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector>  
Visit the gallery!  www.tvbf.org/gallery
user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html

  _____  

_______________________________________________
To change your email address, visit
http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
 <http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector>  
Visit the gallery!  www.tvbf.org/gallery
user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/private/reflector/attachments/20080131/b1511907/attachment-0001.htm 