REFLECTOR: MATCO brakes- Question for Scott Baker

Wed Jun 6 09:27:47 CDT 2007

Hi Scott-
Let me ask you this then- I have the 600's- they have never seen brake
fluid, they have never seen even the fitting used to attach the brake lines-
I will be sending them to Matco to be converted to the larger configuration,
so they will be in the same condition after machining as if they have just
come brand new from Matco as 600xt- I have already confirmed this with
Matco- will you accept these freshly re-configured virgin brakes for trade
for Clevelands? And if so how much is that trade? Seems like I remember $400
range....... I think I will be a little heavy with my dual battery/dual
alternator setup.......

Thanks,

Alex
-----Original Message-----
From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
Behalf Of Scott Baker
Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2007 12:25 PM
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
Subject: REFLECTOR: MATCO brakes

When Velocity first offered the XL model, the most powerful brakes offered 
by MATCO were the 600's.  The 600's were offered as standard equipment in 
Velocity XL kits.
The 600's could best be described as 'margionally adequate' for an XL with 
its original recommended 2700# GTOW.  Max performance braking would often 
lead to brake fade.  Velocity requested a better brake from MATCO - and they

came out with a larger piston version of the 600 and named it the W600XT. 
The W600XT's then became the new standard on XL's.  The W600XT brake system 
is adequate for the XL if kept to a 2800# GTOW limit (what the factory 
recommends today).  Many builders have increased the GTOW of the aircraft - 
or operate the aircraft at weights exceeding the recommended GTOW - and are 
having brake performance problems.  The problems mount when combined with 
faster than normal touchdown speeds.  Velocity introduced a Cleveland wheel 
and brake package for XL models with the -5 option and its recommended 2900#

GTOW.  I know of many Velocity builders who have specified 3,000# (and 
higher!) GTOW limits for their aircraft - and I know of many still, who 
routinely operate their XL's 200 to 300# over gross.  The W600XT's have a 
difficult time stopping aircraft that weigh in at 2,900# or heaver.
A note about company policy and trade-in of MATCO W600XT brakes towards the 
purchase of Cleveland wheels and brakes -
Velocity will accept "as new" W600XT brakes that have _never_ seen brake 
fluid in trade for Clevelands.  When we say "as new" it really means just 
that - the condition has to be such that a future owner of the brakes will 
recognize and accept the brakes as new.  When asked by customers if their 
W600XT brakes will qualify for trade in, we ask the questions - "Would you 
accept these wheels and brakes if they were shipped to you?".
We currently have six sets of W600XT trade-in's that customers _swore_ met 
that standard of quality.  Some were charged with brake fluid; some have 
blotches of Epoxy spills on the wheels; some have machine marks; and some 
were returned with missing parts - none of them can be shipped with new 
kits.  Because of these abuses, we now require customers to ship their 
W600XT's to us for evaluation before we commit to accepting the MATCO's in 
exchange for Cleveland's.
Best to all,
Scott B.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Andy Millin" <amillin at sbcglobal.net>
To: "'Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list'" <reflector at tvbf.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2007 11:27 AM
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Brake authority

> Mike,
>
> Shortly after Velocity started using the Cleveland brakes on the XL, the
> made an offer to the builders to upgrade the Matcos.  I believe the offer
> was only if the Matcos were still new and unmounted.  This made sense as
> they could put them with an SE kit as new with good conscience.
>
> Mine were new and still in the box.  I paid an upgrade charge.  I don't
> remember exactly how much it was.  This was probably 2-3 years ago.  I am
> also building XL/FG.  I ordered the kit in 2000.
>
> Andy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
> Behalf Of Mike Dawson
> Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2007 10:00 AM
> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
> Subject: REFLECTOR: Brake authority
>
> Scott
> My brother and I are slowly building a XLFG. It was one of the first,1999,
> consequently we have the W600 matco brakes not even the w600xt's. We have
> only taxied with them , with toe brake upgrade, and I find them woefully
> weak. Do you think Velocity would consider a trade up to the XT's since 
> that
> is what they put in the newer models or is my only option $$$$?
> Mike
>
> --- Scott Baker <sbakr at comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> Don't forget the weight of the aircraft.
>> The XL GTOW is hundreds of pounds more than the SE and LW/173, which
>> of course affects the stopping power of the brakes.
>> SB
>
>
>
>
>
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