No subject
Mon Jul 9 21:19:45 CDT 2007
ODC and (relatively speaking) less problematic as long as precautions are
made not to let it get into groundwater. As for use, it looks like I will
need to use it in well ventilated area and with protection against skin
contact. Does that sound about right?
It gets me a bit nervous when I start talking about this kind of stuff.
Hiroo
From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
Behalf Of Alex Balic
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 12:25 PM
To: 'Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list'
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Degreaser recommendation
Hiroo-
You can use Freon to degrease the structure- will penetrates the glass and
will take all of the oil with it as it drips off- if it can not drip off,
then it will leave the oil where it evaporates- just watch your hands for
cold if you decide to go with it- will not otherwise affect anything but the
oil.
Alex
_____
From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
Behalf Of Hiroo Umeno
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 12:42 PM
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
Subject: REFLECTOR: Degreaser recommendation
In about 20 some hours of flying, the bottom half of N21HV is pretty
saturated with mineral oil. I had a very slow leak at the nose cooler that
went undetected for a while that puddle the oil on the nose that soaked into
the fuselage bottom foam. It is to the point where the co-pilot side floor
is slimy. The rear-end is also quite oily from the Franklin spitting and
dripping oil everywhere.
So, I am in search of a good de-greaser but I am a bit confused by all the
choices. Here is what I am looking for.
Pri-1
* Deep penetrating (into the foam and fiberglass structure)
* Non-corrosive (safe for metal structure)
Pri-2 (nice to have)
* Non-toxic / easy handling
In general, how do they work? I do know for surface degreaser, you apply
them and wash them off but for the soaked-in foam, how does that work?
Hiroo
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<div class=3DSection1>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Hi =
Hiroo-<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>There are several types of Freon =
CFC and
non CFC they have varying boiling points and those with higher boiling =
points- </span></font><font
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-family:Arial'>trichlorotrifluoroethane-<font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'> were regularly used in =
industrial vapor
degreasers which I was privy to design- now with EPA regs most have been
converted to aqueous based systems which do not work as well as the =
vapor
degreasers did- there is another system that uses something called =
</span></font></span></font><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>IPA and
cyclohexane, of which I am not familiar, but it claims to be just as =
effective
and non- ozone depleting. </span></font><font color=3Dblack =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-family:Arial;color:black'> all Freon materials have a =
high
affinity for grease and oil and will remove it entirely- military kind =
of
entirely- you can use R-134A from Autozone- just make sure that it does =
not
contain an oil charge- you can spray the liquid onto the soiled part, =
and the oil
will be gone – just as with most things that are severely =
effective, you
do need to exercise some caution when using =
them……<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>An alternate might be Naptha or =
TSP both
of which will do a great job of removing oil from your hands for about a =
day or
so if you are not careful<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p=
>
<div>
<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"'>
<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] <b><span
style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Hiroo Umeno<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, July 09, =
2007 7:41
PM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName =
w:st=3D"on">Velocity
Aircraft Owners and Builders list</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: REFLECTOR: =
Degreaser
recommendation</span></font><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman"'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>After much digging =
around…
Another big issue seems to be of just where one would get ahold of such
material. It looks like it’s not something I can call up =
some
vendor with a credit card number and have shipped to me. (After =
reading
some more into the nature of the beast, there probably is a really good =
reason
behind that, too).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font><=
/p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Any suggestions? =
Alternatives?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font><=
/p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Hiroo<o:p></o:p></span></font></=
p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font><=
/p>
<div>
<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> Hiroo =
Umeno <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, July 09, =
2007 1:09
PM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> '<st1:PersonName =
w:st=3D"on">Velocity
Aircraft Owners and Builders list</st1:PersonName>'<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: REFLECTOR: =
Degreaser
recommendation<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Alex,<o:p></o:p></span></font></=
p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font><=
/p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Not being really up to speed on =
my
Organic Chemistry… Is Freon the same thing as CFC? =
There are
a bunch of them listed here <a =
href=3D"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freon">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/=
Freon</a>
but it looks like PCE (<a
href=3D"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetrachloroethylene">http://en.wikip=
edia.org/wiki/Tetrachloroethylene</a>)
is what I am looking for. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font><=
/p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>From the entry there, it looks =
like at
least that variety does not count as ODC and (relatively speaking) less
problematic as long as precautions are made not to let it get into =
groundwater.
As for use, it looks like I will need to use it in well ventilated area =
and
with protection against skin contact. Does that sound about =
right?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font><=
/p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>It gets me a bit nervous when I =
start
talking about this kind of stuff.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font><=
/p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Hiroo<o:p></o:p></span></font></=
p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font><=
/p>
<div>
<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] <b><span
style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Alex Balic<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, July 09, =
2007 12:25
PM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> '<st1:PersonName =
w:st=3D"on">Velocity
Aircraft Owners and Builders list</st1:PersonName>'<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: REFLECTOR: =
Degreaser
recommendation<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:black'>Hiroo-<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:black'>You can use Freon to degrease the
structure- will penetrates the glass and will take all of the oil with =
it as it
drips off- if it can not drip off, then it will leave the oil where it
evaporates- just watch your hands for cold if you decide to go with it- =
will
not otherwise affect anything but the oil.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p=
>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:black'>Alex<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p=
>
<div>
<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"'>
<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter>
</span></font></div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] <b><span
style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Hiroo Umeno<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, July 09, =
2007 12:42
PM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName =
w:st=3D"on">Velocity
Aircraft Owners and Builders list</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> REFLECTOR: =
Degreaser
recommendation</span></font><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman"'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>In
about 20 some hours of flying, the bottom half of N21HV is pretty =
saturated
with mineral oil. I had a very slow leak at the nose cooler that =
went
undetected for a while that puddle the oil on the nose that soaked into =
the
fuselage bottom foam. It is to the point where the co-pilot side =
floor is
slimy. The rear-end is also quite oily from the <st1:City =
w:st=3D"on"><st1:place
w:st=3D"on">Franklin</st1:place></st1:City> spitting and dripping oil
everywhere.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>So,
I am in search of a good de-greaser but I am a bit confused by all the =
choices.
Here is what I am looking for…<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>Pri-1<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3Dmsolistparagraph style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 =
level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><font
size=3D2 face=3DSymbol><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol'><span
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>·<font size=3D1 face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>
</span></font></span></span></font><![endif]>Deep penetrating (into the =
foam
and fiberglass structure)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3Dmsolistparagraph style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 =
level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><font
size=3D2 face=3DSymbol><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol'><span
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>·<font size=3D1 face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>
</span></font></span></span></font><![endif]>Non-corrosive (safe for =
metal
structure)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>Pri-2
(nice to have)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3Dmsolistparagraph style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 =
level1 lfo4'><![if !supportLists]><font
size=3D2 face=3DSymbol><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol'><span
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>·<font size=3D1 face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>
</span></font></span></span></font><![endif]>Non-toxic / easy =
handling<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>In
general, how do they work? I do know for surface degreaser, you =
apply
them and wash them off but for the soaked-in foam, how does that =
work?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>Hiroo<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
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