REFLECTOR: ENGINE OUT MYSTERY SOLVED

Andrew Ellzey ajlz72756 at yahoo.com
Wed Aug 22 11:14:51 CDT 2007 

I would ask them if they have product liability insurance to pay for your losses. I am very sorry for your unfortunate mishap. You had a one of a kind aircraft that should have given you years of pleasure. We build for the joy of building but we someday want to fly it for the joy of flying. I hope you can get your wife to reconsider her position.
 
Andy Ellzey


----- Original Message ----
From: Tom Martino <tmartino at troubleshooter.com>
To: Velocity List <reflector at tvbf.org>
Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 9:36:48 AM
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: ENGINE OUT MYSTERY SOLVED


I had the electronic ignition run through it.  The Power Guard is activated
whhen you switch it on.  I switched it through my main master switch.  Then
it is basically in "standby" mode unless the main battery goes down ... Then
it is supposed to seamlessly switch over.


On 8/22/07 7:40 AM, "Brainard, Jerry" <Jerry.Brainard at anthem.com> wrote:

> Tom,
> 
> Forgive my ignorance, but were you running all of the power through the
> Power Guard, or did it have switching built in to the component?
> 
> 
> - jerry
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
> Behalf Of Tom Martino
> Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 12:46 AM
> To: Velocity List
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: ENGINE OUT MYSTERY SOLVED
> 
> Steve,
> 
> Electronic ignitions may only draw 3 to 4 amps ... But they need DC
> power to operate.  If DC power is interrupted in any way ... No spark!
> There are numerous ways for power to be interrupted ... Any routing and
> connection from power to ground will do it.  My electrical panel did not
> fail ... The power source for the ignition modules failed (they were
> routed through the Power Guard).
> 
> Maybe ... Something did fail that caused the Power Guard to fail ... But
> so far we can find no problems.  Power is going into the Power Guard ...
> But not coming back out the other end.
> 
> Thanks for your thoughts and sentiments.  With enough help ... I'll get
> it figured out for sure.
> 
> Tom
> 
> 
> On 8/21/07 10:32 PM, "steve korney" <s_korney at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> Hi Tom...
>> 
>> I'm sorry for you loss as many are... I don't think manufacturers sell
> 
>> products they think will fail... Most design and build the best they
> can...
>> There is always a chance a component will stop working properly... If
>> I'm not mistaken, you said the power source failed, which in turn
>> caused  the electronic ignition to stop working... I haven't heard of
>> any electrical panels to fail before... Maybe something else caused a
>> problem with the panel... Most electronic ignitions only draw about 3
> or 4 amps max...
>> 
>> 
>> Best... Steve
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ----Original Message Follows----
>> From: Tom Martino <tmartino at troubleshooter.com>
>> Reply-To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
>> <reflector at tvbf.org>
>> To: Velocity List <reflector at tvbf.org>
>> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: ENGINE OUT MYSTERY SOLVED
>> Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 22:02:07 -0600
>> 
>> My opinion of dual electronic ignitions has changed drastically.  When
> 
>> you think about the routing of electricity to get spark ... A simple
>> toggle switch that turns on the module could build up carbon and
>> disrupt the flow of electricity thereby interrupting your spark.  In
>> fact, every connection from power to ground is a potential can area of
> failure!
>> 
>> Tom
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 8/21/07 7:12 PM, "Pat Shea" <xl340hp at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Tom,
>>> 
>>> Sorry about your incident.
>>> 
>>> There was some discussions about EI's a couple of years ago on the
>>> Reflector. I just about got my head taken off for suggesting that
>>> electronic ignition may not be as reliable as many hope/suggest. I
>>> was reporting on a non-velocity incident similar to yours due to an
>>> EI issue - that plane came down too.
>>> 
>>> Since then I have discovered EI problems are not all that uncommon.
>>> Most of the problems tend to be in the related sub-systems/wiring,
>>> and not in the solid state electronics of the EI. Since installation
>>> is different on literally every homebuilt, I suspect this is
>>> contributing factor.
>>> 
>>> Don't get me wrong, I'm aware mags fail all the time too - more often
> 
>>> then EI's. However, I don't recall ever hearing about two mags
>>> failing during the same flight (although it's probably happened). As
>>> you said, ignition is critical. I also realize we all feel our
>>> installations are bullet proof - and many are on paper...
>>> 
>>> Currently I'm running two mags. I'd like to switch to one mag and one
> 
>>> EI. But that's me - I have steam gauges and an EFIS...
>>> 
>>> Pat
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --- Tom Martino <tmartino at troubleshooter.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> After close inspection ... I found the problem.
>>>> 
>>>> First the good news ... the engine on my Velocity is perfect!  It
>>>> cranks and fires up with fuel and oil pressures where they should
>>>> be.
>>>> 
>>>> The prop governor did not fail.
>>>> 
>>>> And the is minimal airframe damage.
>>>> 
>>>> So what went wrong?
>>>> 
>>>> The power source for the electronic ignition went bad.
>>>> 
>>>> I had a primary battery and secondary battery and used Wayne Lanza's
> 
>>>> "Power Guard" ... To quote his website ... "The Fail safe secondary
>>>> power control".
>>>> 
>>>> Well, this fail safe module failed and caused power interruptions to
> 
>>>> my ignition modules.
>>>> 
>>>> As it turns out ... I would've been better off NOT to use a
>>>> secondary power source and not to use Lanza's controller.  The
>>>> chances of the alternator and battery going out at the same time are
> 
>>>> remote.  Even if the alternator failed ... The battery could keep
>>>> the engine running for quite some time.
>>>> And if you wanted a backup battery for extended power ... Simply put
> 
>>>> one in with a mechanical switch.
>>>> 
>>>> The thing that puzzles me is that the electronic ignition is
>>>> critical ...
>>>> And the very unit that was supposed to preserve my spark, ended up
>>>> interrupting it.
>>>> 
>>>> I am in the process of having it diagnosed to find out where the
>>>> unit failed.  But FAILED it did.
>>>> 
>>>> Gee ... I lost almost $200,000 on this ... Think I can get my $100
>>>> back on it?
>>>> 
>>>> Tom Martino
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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