REFLECTOR: ENGINE OUT MYSTERY SOLVED

Wed Aug 22 08:40:03 CDT 2007

Tom,

Forgive my ignorance, but were you running all of the power through the
Power Guard, or did it have switching built in to the component? 

- jerry

-----Original Message-----
From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
Behalf Of Tom Martino
Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 12:46 AM
To: Velocity List
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: ENGINE OUT MYSTERY SOLVED

Steve,

Electronic ignitions may only draw 3 to 4 amps ... But they need DC
power to operate.  If DC power is interrupted in any way ... No spark!
There are numerous ways for power to be interrupted ... Any routing and
connection from power to ground will do it.  My electrical panel did not
fail ... The power source for the ignition modules failed (they were
routed through the Power Guard).

Maybe ... Something did fail that caused the Power Guard to fail ... But
so far we can find no problems.  Power is going into the Power Guard ...
But not coming back out the other end.

Thanks for your thoughts and sentiments.  With enough help ... I'll get
it figured out for sure.

Tom

On 8/21/07 10:32 PM, "steve korney" <s_korney at hotmail.com> wrote:

> 
> Hi Tom...
> 
> I'm sorry for you loss as many are... I don't think manufacturers sell

> products they think will fail... Most design and build the best they
can...
> There is always a chance a component will stop working properly... If 
> I'm not mistaken, you said the power source failed, which in turn 
> caused  the electronic ignition to stop working... I haven't heard of 
> any electrical panels to fail before... Maybe something else caused a 
> problem with the panel... Most electronic ignitions only draw about 3
or 4 amps max...
> 
> 
> Best... Steve
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: Tom Martino <tmartino at troubleshooter.com>
> Reply-To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list 
> <reflector at tvbf.org>
> To: Velocity List <reflector at tvbf.org>
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: ENGINE OUT MYSTERY SOLVED
> Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 22:02:07 -0600
> 
> My opinion of dual electronic ignitions has changed drastically.  When

> you think about the routing of electricity to get spark ... A simple 
> toggle switch that turns on the module could build up carbon and 
> disrupt the flow of electricity thereby interrupting your spark.  In 
> fact, every connection from power to ground is a potential can area of
failure!
> 
> Tom
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 8/21/07 7:12 PM, "Pat Shea" <xl340hp at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
>> Tom,
>> 
>> Sorry about your incident.
>> 
>> There was some discussions about EI's a couple of years ago on the 
>> Reflector. I just about got my head taken off for suggesting that 
>> electronic ignition may not be as reliable as many hope/suggest. I 
>> was reporting on a non-velocity incident similar to yours due to an 
>> EI issue - that plane came down too.
>> 
>> Since then I have discovered EI problems are not all that uncommon. 
>> Most of the problems tend to be in the related sub-systems/wiring, 
>> and not in the solid state electronics of the EI. Since installation 
>> is different on literally every homebuilt, I suspect this is 
>> contributing factor.
>> 
>> Don't get me wrong, I'm aware mags fail all the time too - more often

>> then EI's. However, I don't recall ever hearing about two mags 
>> failing during the same flight (although it's probably happened). As 
>> you said, ignition is critical. I also realize we all feel our 
>> installations are bullet proof - and many are on paper...
>> 
>> Currently I'm running two mags. I'd like to switch to one mag and one

>> EI. But that's me - I have steam gauges and an EFIS...
>> 
>> Pat
>> 
>> 
>> --- Tom Martino <tmartino at troubleshooter.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> After close inspection ... I found the problem.
>>> 
>>> First the good news ... the engine on my Velocity is perfect!  It 
>>> cranks and fires up with fuel and oil pressures where they should 
>>> be.
>>> 
>>> The prop governor did not fail.
>>> 
>>> And the is minimal airframe damage.
>>> 
>>> So what went wrong?
>>> 
>>> The power source for the electronic ignition went bad.
>>> 
>>> I had a primary battery and secondary battery and used Wayne Lanza's

>>> "Power Guard" ... To quote his website ... "The Fail safe secondary 
>>> power control".
>>> 
>>> Well, this fail safe module failed and caused power interruptions to

>>> my ignition modules.
>>> 
>>> As it turns out ... I would've been better off NOT to use a 
>>> secondary power source and not to use Lanza's controller.  The 
>>> chances of the alternator and battery going out at the same time are

>>> remote.  Even if the alternator failed ... The battery could keep 
>>> the engine running for quite some time.
>>> And if you wanted a backup battery for extended power ... Simply put

>>> one in with a mechanical switch.
>>> 
>>> The thing that puzzles me is that the electronic ignition is 
>>> critical ...
>>> And the very unit that was supposed to preserve my spark, ended up 
>>> interrupting it.
>>> 
>>> I am in the process of having it diagnosed to find out where the 
>>> unit failed.  But FAILED it did.
>>> 
>>> Gee ... I lost almost $200,000 on this ... Think I can get my $100 
>>> back on it?
>>> 
>>> Tom Martino
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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