REFLECTOR: Rotary
David Ullman
ullman at robustdecisions.com
Fri Sep 29 04:45:20 CDT 2006
I am far from making an engine decision on my project. However a rotary
seems modern, like the plane. So I bought Tray Crook's book on rotary
conversions http://www.rotaryaviation.com/book.html and went to hear him
speak at Sun-n-fun. The first words out his mouth were (I paraphrase here)
"If you don't want the engine to be part of your hobby, don't do a rotary"
In other word, if you want a turn-key (every time) powerplant, stick with
something more conventional. This certainly dampened my enthusiasm.
Dr. David G. Ullman
Robust Decisions Inc
1655 NW Hillcrest Drive
Corvallis, Oregon, 97330 USA
Phone 541-758-5088
Direct Phone: 541-754-3609
FAX 866-898-1007
ullman at robustdecisions.com
-----Original Message-----
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Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 7:35 PM
To: reflector at tvbf.org
Subject: Reflector Digest, Vol 28, Issue 87
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: MUSCLE PLANES (Al Gietzen)
2. Too Fitting to pass up (steve korney)
3. Re: MUSCLE PLANES (Jack Prock)
4. Re: Ethanol (Dave Bertram)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 12:19:43 -0700
From: "Al Gietzen" <ALVentures at cox.net>
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: MUSCLE PLANES
To: "'Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list'"
<reflector at tvbf.org>
Message-ID: <000001c6e333$0d4fd210$6400a8c0 at BigAl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Al,
I have been planning to use the Vesta V8 solution on a XLRG ..... but you
make a compelling case. Where can I get info on the rotary??? does anyone
do a FWF package??
Len Baxter
Len;
Lots of info available, but no FWF (or back) currently available with the
3-rotor; which I'd recommend for the XL. In fact, with the extra room in
the XL cowl, a turbocharged 3-rotor with 2.17 planetary reduction drive
would give great performance, especially up at 15,000 ft.
More info at http://www.rotaryaviation.com/; Real World Solutions (Tracy
Crook) who now has about 1600 hrs on his rotary RV4.
You can peruse my website a http://members.cox.net/alg3/airplane.htm ;
follow links to 'Engine' 'Engine dyno test' and other stuff, (use MS
explorer, the photos don't come up on some pages with Firefox).
Lots of background and technical info available at
http://www.rotaryeng.net/.
Best,,
Al
__________________
Tom;
I noted that you didn't ask about the rotary, but consider that it
eliminates all those pistons, connecting rods, valves, rocker arms, push
rods, etc., with their reciprocal motion. Comes stock with two plugs per
rotor and normal setup is with two injectors per rotor for redundancy. A
normally aspirated 3-rotor with 2.17 to 1 reduction gets you started at
about 265 hp (loafing), at a weight under that of an IO540. If you want
more power go to 3.5 : 1 reduction and get about 320 hp for just a few lbs
more in the cooling system. Add a turbo charger and some porting, and go to
600 hp, but only if you want to win at Reno.
My 'all up' (prop not included) NA installation is about 420 lbs wet. Total
cost for the fairly highly customized installation is about $23,000. Runs
best on mogas, a buck and a half, or so, less than Avgas, but is also quite
happy with avgas. It fits into a cowl that is more compact than needed for
an IO360 (mine is on an SE RG). I'm quite happy with the package, except
for some glitches with the electronic ECU which apparently wasn't designed
for long runs from panel to engine, in a composite airframe subject to
electrical noise; but I'm confident of getting that resolved.
Al
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Message: 2
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 19:25:37 +0000
From: "steve korney" <s_korney at hotmail.com>
Subject: REFLECTOR: Too Fitting to pass up
To: Reflector at tvbf.org
Message-ID: <BAY101-F10C701CDEDC9AD78C6BE78E71B0 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
I don't usally Pass these on but.....
Pilot and wife's diarys
--- Her Diary ---
Tonight I thought he was acting weird. We had made plans to meet at a bar to
have a drink. I was shopping with my friends all day long, so I
thought he was upset at the fact that I was a bit late, but he made no
comment.
Conversation wasn't flowing so I suggested that we go somewhere quiet so we
could talk. He agreed but he kept quiet and absent. I asked him
what was wrong; he said nothing. I asked him if it was my fault that he was
upset. He said it had nothing to do with me and not to worry. On the
way home I told him that I loved him, he simply smiled and kept driving. I
can't explain his behavior. I don't know why he didn't say I love you too.
When we got home I felt as if I had lost him, as if he wanted nothing to do
with me anymore. He just sat there and watched T.V.
He seemed distant and absent. Finally, I decided to go to bed. About 10
minutes later he came to bed, and to my surprise he responded to my
caress and we made love, but I still felt that he was distracted and his
thoughts were somewhere else.
He fell asleep - I cried. I don't know what to do. I'm almost sure that his
thoughts are with someone else. My life is a disaster.
--- His Diary ---
Made the worst landing of my life today, but at least I got laid.
Best... Steve
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 18:29:14 -0700
From: "Jack Prock" <jackprock at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: MUSCLE PLANES
To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
Message-ID: <00f701c6e366$ad3c3010$c801a8c0 at jaxwindows>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Al,
Do you have enough time on the engine to see what the fuel burn is? I have
heard that one downside to a
rotary is the fuel burn goes up. Have you found that to be true?
Jack
----- Original Message -----
From: Al Gietzen
To: 'Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list'
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 9:50 AM
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: MUSCLE PLANES
Tom;
I noted that you didn't ask about the rotary, but consider that it
eliminates all those pistons, connecting rods, valves, rocker arms, push
rods, etc., with their reciprocal motion. Comes stock with two plugs per
rotor and normal setup is with two injectors per rotor for redundancy. A
normally aspirated 3-rotor with 2.17 to 1 reduction gets you started at
about 265 hp (loafing), at a weight under that of an IO540. If you want
more power go to 3.5 : 1 reduction and get about 320 hp for just a few lbs
more in the cooling system. Add a turbo charger and some porting, and go to
600 hp, but only if you want to win at Reno.
My 'all up' (prop not included) NA installation is about 420 lbs wet.
Total cost for the fairly highly customized installation is about $23,000.
Runs best on mogas, a buck and a half, or so, less than Avgas, but is also
quite happy with avgas. It fits into a cowl that is more compact than
needed for an IO360 (mine is on an SE RG). I'm quite happy with the
package, except for some glitches with the electronic ECU which apparently
wasn't designed for long runs from panel to engine, in a composite airframe
subject to electrical noise; but I'm confident of getting that resolved.
Al
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Message: 4
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 21:24:12 -0500 (Central Daylight Time)
From: "Dave Bertram" <v350tx at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Ethanol
To: <reflector at tvbf.org>
Message-ID: <451C83CC.000001.03508 at DOWNSTAIRS>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
When I talked to Len there was no problem with the Airflow Performance parts
We were only concerned with the tanks. Since I have the newer coating of
epoxy there is no problem.
Dave Bertram
-------Original Message-------
From: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
Date: 09/28/06 12:57:24
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
Subject: REFLECTOR: Ethanol
Hi Dave;
I was told by Len Bechtold that Ethanol was a no no in
the Air Performance injection system. I have to admit
I haven't called AirPerformance and asked them! Don
you know different?
Mike
--- Dave Bertram <v350tx at comcast.net> wrote:
> I will ditto what Mike has said since I also got my
> engine from Team-38.
> The PSRU is gear type and is used in airboats (some
> with over 1000 hp).
> However I have been running 92octane mogas with
> ethanol all summer without
> any problems.
> Dave Bertram
> N350TX
>
> -------Original Message-------
>
> From: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
> Date: 09/28/06 02:43:13
> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: MUSCLE PLANES
>
> We are running a www.team-38.com Chevy ZZ383.
> The engine was completely gone thru by Team-38
> ,Iconal
> valves installed, blue printed and balanced then
> dynoed and broken in. Engine cradle and mounts
> provided, a MT electric constant speed prop matched
> to
> a to a 1.73 to 1 planetary gear P.S.R.U. Radiator
> and
> cooling fan also provided as well as a MSD ignition
> system. Smooth, 350+ HP drag plane but $$$47,000.00
> for the package. Several people have fabricated
> there
> own installations from aluminum dart blocked 427cu
> screamers to the corvette LS6 with no mods at all.
> The LS6 is becoming the engine of choice as the
> factory ECU can be re-programed for aircraft
> performance curves. You can do it all yourself or
> buy
> any part of it. Somebody here knows how!
> In the end it can be cheaper as you can rebuild for
> much less $$$ and run 92 octane mogas but no
> Ethanol!
> You do need a gear reduction unit as you can not
> turn
> the engine slow enough for direct drive and avoid
> detonation problems. At least not easily.
> Mike
>
> --- Tom Martino <tmartino at troubleshooter.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > You know ... the more I mess with airplanes (now
> > going on 30+ years) and
> > the more I look at aircraft engines ... the more I
> > realize that they
> > don't hold a candlestick to automotive technology.
> > So ... in contemplating my next project (which may
> > or may not be a V)
> > ... what is the wisdom here regarding powerful
> > automobile engines. I
> > want something comparable to more powerful that
> the
> > IO-550 or the
> > IO-540.
> > I know there are a few guys here who are running
> > Chevys. Here's what I
> > would like to know:
> > -Do you have to convert your auto engine? Or are
> > there companies that
> > do it for you?
> > -Are they heavier than standard aircraft engines?
> > -Do they require a lot of fabrication and
> > modification? What about
> > engine mounts?
> > -Are they quieter? Do they run smoother?
> > -Do you need gear reduction drives?
> > -Do they end up being cheaper? Or more expensive?
> > Thanks for any info.
> > Tom
> >
> > > _______________________________________________
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