REFLECTOR: Fly-off area and Operating Limitations
steve korney
s_korney at hotmail.com
Thu May 11 21:59:56 CDT 2006
Hi Pat and all...
Check it out.... From the Van Nuys FSDO...
http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/537-full.html#191233
How SoCal Is Working To Ban Experimentals
Four California Airports Off-Limits To Some Homebuilts, Warbirds
EAA says it's making progress in reversing or modifying restrictions on
experimental aircraft imposed on four busy California airports by the Van
Nuys Flight Standards District Office (FSDO). In April of 2004, then-FSDO
Manager Robyn Miller issued a memo that effectively barred some experimental
aircraft from regular operations at Van Nuys (yes, of One Six Right fame),
Whiteman, Burbank and Santa Barbara airports. Most experimentals are
homebuilts but many warbirds are operated in the experimental category,
also. The memo says that "phase II and 'normal' operations [by
experimentals] will not be allowed" at the four airports although
"exceptions may be made based upon current office policy, certification
category, aircraft type and operator experience." The memo did contain a
grandfather clause allowing existing experimentals to continue using the
fields until they are moved, sold or the nature of their operation is
changed. The memo also bans initial flight and phase I testing of
experimentals at the airports.
Policy Discriminatory, Says EAA
EAA spokesman Dick Knapinski said the organization has been aware of the
memo since it was issued last year and has worked behind the scenes to help
individual pilots at the affected airports. However, Knapinski said the memo
is fundamentally flawed in that it can only apply to aircraft that the local
authorities are familiar with. "The way it stands now, there's nothing to
stop someone from flying an experimental aircraft in from somewhere else,
overnighting and taking off the next day," said Knapinski. "It creates two
different levels of enforcement." ... And perhaps enforcement by personal
interpretation. In addition to helping pilots at the affected airports,
Knapinski said EAA has been lobbying FAA officials on the matter. "We've
been after the FAA about this and I think we're making some progress," he
said. Knapinski said the Van Nuys memo was "enacted at the local level" and
allowing such local interpretation can cause problems. "Those levels of
various rulemaking in these instances is something that EAA is constantly
working against, because it leads to confusion in the pilot community," he
said.
FSDO Defends Actions
Van Nuys FSDO Manager Richard Swanson said his office is merely spelling out
a policy that has been directed by the FAA administrator. Swanson said all
offices were asked to review their policies with respect to the operating
limitations that come with flying an experimental aircraft. He said the
limitations vary depending on aircraft type and use, but, in general,
experimental aircraft are not supposed to fly over congested areas and the
four California airports are all in heavily populated areas with busy
airspace. But he noted that doesn't necessarily mean that all experimentals
are banned from using the airports because many homebuilts have an exception
in their operating limitations that allows them to fly over developed areas
and in congested airspace for landing and takeoff. "Each pilot has to be
aware of the operating limitations of the aircraft," he said. Swanson said
the difference between a homebuilt and a certified aircraft is that a
certified plane is theoretically a "known entity" that has been through
airworthiness processes and is supposed to be maintained to those standards.
Experimental aircraft don't have that paper trail and that's why the
limitations are in place. "It's really a certification issue," he said. "Our
task, after all, is to protect the general public." He also noted that it
would be impossible for his office to monitor transient traffic and
determine which experimentals are allowed to use the four airports. He said
it's up to the aircraft owners to make sure they operate within the rules
and all it takes is a ramp check to determine if they are being followed.
The devil's in the paperwork.
Best... Steve
----Original Message Follows----
From: Pat Shea <xl340hp at yahoo.com>
Reply-To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Test Area (Was: Another step)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2006 00:01:08 -0700 (PDT)
Steve,
Yikes! Does the EAA know about this? Obviously i'm
already at WHP but it sounds a little nutty. Are they
only trying to restrict newly certificated homebuilts
from basing there? Otherwise, how would the Van Nuys
FSDO even know you were planning to base an
established experimental at one of these airports?
Pat
--- steve korney <s_korney at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Ronnie...
>
> Every FSDO is different...
>
> Here at the Van Nuys FSDO in the Los Angeles area,
> they have the power to
> NOT let you keep your airplane at certain
> airports... Currently, if you have
> a experimental plane based at VNY,WHP,SBA or SMO you
> can keep it there, but
> if you try to get a new plane authorized to be based
> there, the FSDO can
> restrict you on the new Operating Limitations...
>
> Best... Steve
>
>
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: "Ron Brown" <romott at adelphia.net>
> Reply-To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
> <reflector at tvbf.org>
> To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list"
> <reflector at tvbf.org>
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Test Area (Was: Another
> step)
> Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 12:15:54 -0400
>
> Hiroo,
>
> I am located on the edge of Charlotte's Class B. I
> built my plane at a
> 3000' runway (14A), elected to transport it to an
> airport about 15 miles
> away (IPJ) that is under Class B - 3600' msl. See
> http://skyvector.com/ and
> enter 14A for the Airport/VOR/Fix.
>
> I got a 50 mile radius around the home base (14A)
> excluding the Class B
> airspace. There were about a half dozen airports
> that I was able to use
> during my 40 hour flight test.
>
> I think if you make a reasonable request, you'll get
> at least what you ask
> for. Avoid heavily populated areas/airports.
>
> Now, get back to building!
> Ron
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hiroo Umeno"
> <humeno at microsoft.com>
> To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list"
> <reflector at tvbf.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 11:35 AM
> Subject: REFLECTOR: Test Area (Was: Another step)
>
>
> This is interesting...
>
> I have a situation where my plane is currently in
> the "finishing school"
> getting engine and cooling work done in preparation
> for its first
> flight. It's "home" is 18 miles away in another
> field. My
> understanding of the FAR was that you can only land
> at one field during
> the Phase 1 and will have a box somewhere nearby
> over sparsely populated
> areas.
>
> I would love to be able to fly the plane down to its
> home field once a
> couple flights is done to continue its fly-off.
> They have a longer
> runway (enough for 747s and 777s.), it is a
> controlled field and have a
> much better support in terms of FBOs and emergency
> equipments
> (hopefully, I won't need their services but it is
> always nice to know
> they're there).
>
> It looks like there is some flexibility in the regs
> to make arrangements
> like that.
>
> Hiroo
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org
> [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
> Behalf Of Richard Riley
> Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2006 10:45 PM
> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
> Subject: RE: REFLECTOR: Another step
>
> At 10:29 PM 5/9/2006, you wrote:
>
> >Congrats from DU Al....now how ya gonna fly off
> >the 40 hrs within 2 weeks so you can get this beast
> down to the
> symposium?
>
> I'll let you all in on a little secret.
>
> In 99 we were finishing a plane to run at
> Reno. We did a year's worth of work in about 6
> weeks. Got it done a few days before the race.
>
> I got a DAR who'd never inspected a homebuilt
> before. He didn't know what homebuilt flight
> limitations normally looked like. So I typed them
> up for him.
>
> We got a test area that was a 25 mile radius
> around Camarillo airport, where we did the first
> flight. But, we were allowed to test out of a
> couple of other airports too. We had a 25 mile
> radius around Mojave and Fox, and a 10 mile corridor
> between them.
>
> And 25 miles around Chino, and a corridor there.
>
> And 25 miles around Stead. And a corridor there.
>
> And that's how it was that were racing at Reno
> with an airplane that had it's first flight 4 days
> earlier.
>
>
> --
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>
>
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