REFLECTOR: Cruise speed "speed brake" & Glass O'cast

Tue Sep 6 15:05:40 CDT 2005

But it wouldn't prevent you from over speeding the speed brake if it 
were already deployed, or retract it automatically when limits were 
exceeded?

michalk wrote:

> The diode would allow you to retract the speedbreak if the cutout 
> switch were engaged.
>
> Jim Sower wrote:
>
>> <<flip the switch to extend the board, and let the cutout switch 
>> decide when to extend it some more What would happen if you were 
>> cruising at low IAS (say at 15k'), extended the board, dumped the 
>> nose and accelerated to some point beyond the limit?  Sounds like 
>> your scheme would prevent you from extending at excessive speed, but 
>> not be able to retract it if the speed became excessive after it was 
>> already extended.
>> Am I reading you right? ... Jim S.
>>
>> michalk wrote:
>>
>>> Incrementally extending...
>>>
>>> I was just thinking about this on your first post.
>>>
>>> It seems it would be quite simple to add a force actuated switch 
>>> that would not exceed some limit.
>>>
>>> I do not remember what the current actuators are rated for, but 
>>> let's assume they are 100lbs.
>>>
>>> Make a collar that fits around the keel end of the actuator, with a 
>>> spring with the appropriate K factor to move .25 inches when 75lbs 
>>> is applied.  Put a switch in series with the actuator, with a diode 
>>> so that the switch is bypassed if you want to retract while the 
>>> cutout switch is engaged.  Normal operation would bypass the diode 
>>> (no voltage drop), when the cutout switch is not engaged.
>>>
>>> Want to go down? just flip the switch to extend the board, and let 
>>> the cutout switch decide when to extend it some more.  Just don't 
>>> exceed the limits by increasing your airspeed.
>>>
>>> I suppose one could get fancier with a DPDT switch that would 
>>> retract it if the forces get too high, but I haven't put enough 
>>> brain cells into that problem.
>>>
>>>
>>> Scott Derrick wrote:
>>>
>>>> I would hate to give up my separate rudder controls and yes they do 
>>>> act as a speed break, but fairly weak compared to the belly board 
>>>> and a major PITA to use on an extended cruise descent.
>>>>
>>>> I want something I can turn on and basically fly the airplane in a 
>>>> normal manner, except for the fact I'm able to descend fairly 
>>>> quickly under power.
>>>>
>>>> Beefing up the belly board really seems to me to be the best 
>>>> option.  Possibly adding controls to be able to incrementally 
>>>> extend it at preset points.
>>>> Scott
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Terry Miles wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I'm not flying yet, but I understand that (both rudders at once) 
>>>>> feature
>>>>> is not on later versions of the Velocity.
>>>>> New topic:  Rich, thanks for the pics of Oshkosh.
>>>>> Terry
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org 
>>>>> [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
>>>>> Behalf Of Kufalk
>>>>> Sent: Monday, September 05, 2005 4:18 PM
>>>>> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
>>>>> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Cruise speed "speed brake"
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Terry wrote...   "Another thought only, how about a split rudder like
>>>>> the
>>>>> B-727."
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Don't all canard pushers already have split rudders?
>>>>>
>>>>> If you want to slow down from cruise speed without reducing power, 
>>>>> why
>>>>> not just press both rudders at the same time?
>>>>>
>>>>> Darrell
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terry Miles" 
>>>>> <terrence_miles at hotmail.com>
>>>>> To: "'Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list'" 
>>>>> <reflector at tvbf.org>
>>>>> Sent: Monday, September 05, 2005 6:32 AM
>>>>> Subject: RE: REFLECTOR: Cruise speed "speed brake"
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  
>>>>>
>>>>>> Chuck,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You can add me to the list of interested parties.  Here is all I 
>>>>>> have.
>>>>>> In a brief and non-technical exchange w/ Scott Baker on this 
>>>>>> topic back about 6 months ago, comments expressed at that time 
>>>>>> were that there was a general safety concern about the panel 
>>>>>> coming off at higher airloads and going into the prop.  So a 
>>>>>> conservative speed limit was established and no testing was done 
>>>>>> above that speed.  And
>>>>>>   
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> further there was no
>>>>>  
>>>>>
>>>>>> interest in incremental deployment angles.   Another thought 
>>>>>> only, how
>>>>>> about a split rudder like the B-727.  Only this one would split 
>>>>>> and the low half both LH and RH would deflect into the slip 
>>>>>> stream.  The problem solved is not it out of the prop track, but 
>>>>>> the problem created is the deflection is way to far from 
>>>>>> centerline in the event of assym deployment malfunctions.  Good 
>>>>>> luck with this.  Keep us posted.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Terry
>>>>>> XL-RG with a SB
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org]
>>>>>> On Behalf Of Chuck Harbert
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, September 05, 2005 3:54 AM
>>>>>> To: reflector at tvbf.org
>>>>>> Subject: REFLECTOR: Cruise speed "speed brake"
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Scott, I too have wondered if there was a way to install a high 
>>>>>> speed
>>>>>> speed brake like the one on the Mooney 201 that pops up on the 
>>>>>> upper surface of
>>>>>> the wing to kill the lift. It was great to get down in a hurry 
>>>>>> without
>>>>>> puting the engine at idle. I wondered if you could install this
>>>>>> electrically
>>>>>> activated "fence" at the outboard edge of the strake in the wing 
>>>>>> bolt
>>>>>> cavity, or inside the wing attached to the spar? They're not that
>>>>>>   
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> large
>>>>>  
>>>>>
>>>>>> as I
>>>>>> recall. They fail safe in the down position and have a warning light
>>>>>> when
>>>>>> deployed, as I recall.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think that this might be a better way because it kills lift, 
>>>>>> rather
>>>>>> than just dirtying up the plane, and possibly making it unstable. 
>>>>>> I have the underbelly speed brake in my RG and it definetely 
>>>>>> works well for landing,
>>>>>> but I'd love to have a real speed brake. I'll try to get a look 
>>>>>> at the
>>>>>> Mooney's speed brake and send everybody the info.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chuck H
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -------------------------
>>>>>> Scott Derrick wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think the standard speed brake is limited to 120 knot extension
>>>>>>> speed.  Which limits its uses to in the pattern.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Has anybody experimented with beefing it up to allow higher speed
>>>>>>> extensions?  Like 175 knots?  This would make it a true speed 
>>>>>>> brake.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I would like something I could deploy at cruise to enable a cruise
>>>>>>> speed descent without shock cooling the engine.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What would you think would be needed to do this?  bigger hinges?
>>>>>>> bigger actuator?  carbon fiber door?
>>>>>>>     
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>
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>
>
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