REFLECTOR: RE: Reflector Digest, Vol 17,
Issue 20-Reason for Sump fuel sensor
Mark Riley
anriley at comcast.net
Mon Oct 10 17:52:26 CDT 2005
In response to the posting questioning the usefulness of a sump fuel level
sensor and warning light, the following is the reasoning that prompted me to
use one. Even if tanks are evenly filled, you may find, as I did, that your
tanks do not feed evenly in flight. In my case, this was caused by the need
to very slightly shim one rudder out to compensate for one wing being
imperceptibly lower in straight and "level" flight. This drove me crazy
until Brendan gave me the fix. In this scenario, I would occasionally arrive
with most of my reserves in one tank and worried that any disruption in flow
from that one tank could cause fuel starvation. Also, in the initial test
flight period, you can't assume that your more advanced gauges are reading
correctly or that you will even have proper flow in flight. I really liked
the idea of a nearly foolproof, independent system to give me time to put
the plane down if I had a problem.
-----Original Message-----
From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
Behalf Of reflector-request at tvbf.org
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 4:40 PM
To: reflector at tvbf.org
Subject: Reflector Digest, Vol 17, Issue 20
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Today's Topics:
1. [c-a] Protest permanent implementation of the Washington Air
Defense Identification Zone. (Chuck Jensen)
2. Re: Leaking sump float switch (Scott Derrick)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 15:14:21 -0400
From: "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen at dts9000.com>
Subject: REFLECTOR: [c-a] Protest permanent implementation of the
Washington Air Defense Identification Zone.
To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
Message-ID: <BAC2EEF39891644093A1A3FE8999C5D01A556A at LUCKY.dts.local>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I'm forwarding this from the canard.list. Perhaps it's been on the
Reflector, but if not, take 10 minutes to let the Regulators know that
this isn't such a great idea. Even if one doesn't fly in the DC area,
it's still a bad precedent. Every major city will suffer from ADIZ
envy, then they'll be everywhere.
Chuck
Protest permanent implementation of the Washington Air Defense
Identification Zone.
Protest now or see it near an airport near you in the future.
This alert went out to all 406,000 AOPA members on Oct. 5 and by
Saturday afternoon more than 1,200 fresh protests had been registered.
The flurry pushed the total number of comments registered on the
controversial Notice of Proposed Rulemaking
<http://dms.dot.gov/search/document.cfm?documentid=341297&docketid=17005
>
(NPRM) to a little more than 2,000. Deadline for submissions is Nov. 2.
AOPA President Phil Boyer said the concern is two-fold.
1. He said the ADIZ is an exaggerated response to the minimal threat
posed by light aircraft. He claims the capital has all the protection it
needs from the 15-nm flight restricted zone (FRZ) around Washington. The
3,000-square-mile ADIZ causes operational and economic disruption, not
to mention dramatically increasing a pilot's chances of being shot down.
2. But such an action paves the way for costly, confusing flight
restrictions within the footprint of every Class B airspace around the
country." AOPA contends that other cities are considering asking for
similar "protection" and this NPRM could be the catalyst.
You can go here: http://www.aopa.org/adizalert/ to make it even easier
with a step-by-step guide <http://www.aopa.org/adizalert/> to ensuring
your voice is heard in Washington.
The URL will give you an idea of what you might want to say in you
comments.
http://www.aopa.org/adizalert/help.html
Warm regards,
Gary
Long Eze, FXE (Fort Lauderdale Executive)
http://www.uslan.com/hinge-kit.html
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 14:39:16 -0600
From: Scott Derrick <scott at tnstaafl.net>
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Leaking sump float switch
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
Message-ID: <434AD174.20107 at tnstaafl.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
I still can't see any reason for a sump switch, unless it for the person
that has faulty fuel level sensors in the mains and also refuses to
calculate their fuel burn before and during the flight.
Scott
Chuck Jensen wrote:
> Ronnie,
>
> At least for the GRT EFIS installations (which allows input data into
> a calibration table), these sensors with the brain-in-the-head are far
> superior to the units that needed to be routed through GRTs little
> translation boxes which allegedly can be calibrated, though I found no
> evidence of it.
>
> While I initially wasnt keen on having clear plastic tubes in the
> strake showing the actual fuel levels, I came to appreciate them big
> time when my fuel indication was unreliable I got it resolved with the
> Centroid sensors.
>
> Chuck
>
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org]
> *On Behalf Of *Ron Brown
> *Sent:* Monday, October 10, 2005 12:32 PM
> *To:* Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
> *Subject:* Re: REFLECTOR: Leaking sump float switch
>
> Chuck,
>
> The sensor head is similar to the Westach I have - sticks up about
> 3/4" above the mounting base. I may just redo the mounting base -
> i.e.. recess it about 3/4" to a 1" so I can raise the tank up off the
> floor.
>
> Ronnie
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> *From:* Chuck Jensen <mailto:cjensen at dts9000.com>
>
> *To:* Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
> <mailto:reflector at tvbf.org>
>
> *Sent:* Monday, October 10, 2005 9:39 AM
>
> *Subject:* RE: REFLECTOR: Leaking sump float switch
>
> For continuous readoutany length, any depth, another solution is
> the Centroid Skyprobe. They will manufacture to any length and the
> electronic guts are in the head and output 0-5v. They plug right
> into the Grand Rapids, and probably any 0-5v indicator. A little
> pricey at $95/ea, but seem to be fool-proof, which is why they
> worked for me. http://www.centroidproducts.com/tableofc.htm
>
> Chuck
>
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* reflector-bounces at tvbf.org
> [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] *On Behalf Of *Alex Balic
> *Sent:* Monday, October 10, 2005 12:09 AM
> *To:* 'Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list'
> *Subject:* RE: REFLECTOR: Leaking sump float switch
>
> Gems sells a solid state unit that uses light dispersion to tell
> if there is fuel at the sensor- you can get normally open or
> normally closed types - no moving parts and it will screw in as a
> direct replacement for the float type switches. In my former life
> as a manufacturing engineer- we went through several plants on
> equipment re-design replacing float types with the non- contact
> types- the floats were leaking and sinking and causing all kinds
> of problems as a result.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* reflector-bounces at tvbf.org
> [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] *On Behalf Of *Jim Sower
> *Sent:* Sunday, October 09, 2005 2:40 PM
> *To:* Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
> *Subject:* Re: REFLECTOR: Leaking sump float switch
>
> If I had it to do over (which may very well develop) I would
> dispense with the float switch (more of that 1920s technology) and
> install one of the many solid state sensors available like those
> used for the low fuel warning lights on our dash boards. If I
> thought it important to know /how far into/ my sump fuel I am, I
> might mount several of these sensors "on a stick" and have them
> drive ladder lights on the panel.
> Arguably cheaper than float switch, certainly safer and more
> reliable ... Jim S.
>
> wurzel at alumni.caltech.edu <mailto:wurzel at alumni.caltech.edu> wrote:
>
>So, I started noticing blue dye down the side of (and on the
>
>floor right underneath) the sump tank. Turns out fuel is
>
>leaking either through or around the float switch. D'oh,
>
>the one-day annual condition inspection morphs itself
>
>into a full-on project.
>
>
>
>Unfortunately, my float switch isn't screwed into a hard point
>
>as seems to be the standard these days. I'm not sure if
>
>Rick L rolled his own low fuel sensor, or if Velocity
>
>used to recommend just glassing the switch directly into
>
>the side of the tank, but in any event it is, in fact, just
>
>glassed right into the side and providing a lovely 100LL
>
>aroma to my cabin.
>
>
>
>So, I'd like to convert this to a threaded installation.
>
>
>
>1) Any ideas on the easiest way to do this? My current
>
>thought is to remove the current switch while taking as
>
>little of the surrounding material off as possible. Then,
>
>sand the outside of the sump tank so it's flat in the area
>
>where the switch was. Next, coat the hard point and the tank
>
>with epoxy and press them together... finally put some glass
>
>over the outside of the hard point as well (making sure not to
>
>get any in the threads!)
>
>
>
>2) What do I need to know about fuel and epoxy? Is there a
>
>particular epoxy I need to use for this application? Flox?
>
>Micro? Do I have to put some kind of sealant on the inside
>
>after the epoxy has cured to prevent leaks or deterioration?
>
>I saw some comments in old posts on using a shop vac to draw a
>
>vacuum and suck the epoxy in around things, and that sounds
>
>like a good idea as long as I'm using the right epoxy and it
>
>doesn't dissolve as soon as the fuel hits it. :-)
>
>
>
>Thanks in advance for the help!
>
>
>
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