REFLECTOR: I don't know this aircraft
Dave Dent
davedent at comcast.net
Tue Jun 14 11:50:21 CDT 2005
Just some thoughts I have on this subject of welding parts that go on
aircraft. I had just got back from a flight and had taken the cowl off to
add some baffles to #5&6 cylinders because they were running about 50
degrees more then the rest. The dog house over the engine comes directly
straight down behind these cylinders. I had put additional baffles on the
heads but not on the barrels. So I added the additional baffles and it
worked, but that is not what I'm getting at.
When I took the cowl off I looked over things like always just to see that
everything is OK under there. Well, I found that the bent washer that was
welded on the left exhaust for the safety cable had cracked all around the
weld and 3/4 around the pipe. Once again I have found that just because it
is TIG welded don't make it a good weld. I took it back to the fellow that
welded it and he said this always happens when he welds these aircraft
exhaust. I asked him if he had normalized it after he welded it. He says
he never does, TIG welding doesn't need it. I told him he was wrong. He
took offence but re-welded it anyway. I then took it back to the hangar and
took a torch to the welded area and normalized it. ( making it equal ) I'm
sure it will not brake again. It's all the same structure now. I heat the
whole area up to cherry red and let it cool very slowly.
I learned this way back when I took a welding class when I worked at LLNL
dealing with exotic metals. I had an exhaust pipe brake over Iowa on a trip
to OSH a number of years ago and made an emergency landing at a small
farming town. A fellow took me into town and we found a place that welded
up cattle ramps and gates. They only had a MIG welder and I bolted the
flange and pipe to a steel table and welded it. I then took it back to the
field and the fellow had a cutting torch that he used on the farm equipment
and I normalized it to cherry red and let it cool and it never broke again.
A good 1000 hours or more. I took all the rest of the pipes off when I got
home and went over the welds the same way. They never gave me trouble. Did
the same on an engine mount that was TIG welded. It was so hard after
welding that I had to go over the areas I had to make wholes in just to
drill into it.
Another time was when I came into the hangar after the day before just
flying it to work and back the day before and finding the upper two Lord
attachments broke and the engine hanging down so the prop looked like it was
put on wrong. Pushing the plane out of the hangar to start taking the
engine off the two lower mounts broke when it went of the very small door
tracks.
Called the company that built it and they said they always heat treat their
mounts after TIG welding them. I asked how high in temp they heat them too.
They said 800F. I didn't think this was enough for high carbon steel,4130.
When I got the new one back I went over it with a torch again and I then
could drill through the end tubes to mount it to my airframe. This was on my
Long EZ.
So the issue I am trying to get across is, just because it is TIG welded and
looks good, don't make it a good weld. My first plane I built was a tube
and fabric plane and every weld was normalized. Never had a crack once. So
when some one welds something for you make sure they do it right. The way I
checked for the consistency of a weld to base metal was with an auto center
punch The weld and the base metal should be the same. If not, it could
fail in time. They must be the same. Especially with high carbon steels.
It seems that TIG welding has become the norm now days because it looks so
good. But it is very centralized and this makes a weld very independent
from the base materials. So take this into consideration when using this
technique of welding. Also the issue of having the part ultra clean before
welding. Contaminants can do the same in weakening a weld.
Well I have gone on to long but just some thoughts when having some welding
done for you. A small weld can cause a big problem later. As you have seen
in your case.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Velocity_AZ" <velocity_AZ at cox.net>
To: "'Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list'" <reflector at tvbf.org>
Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 9:09 PM
Subject: RE: REFLECTOR: I don't know this aircraft
> Everyone on the Reflector -
>
> I just got back from the hangar and had inspected the plane more
> thoroughly.
> The steel fitting that broke was an elbow fitting that was originally too
> long, was cut and welded. It was welded by a professional aircraft welder
> and looks like it broke right at the weld. The reason this fitting was
> shorten was to allow more clearance - it was originally rubbing against
> the
> firewall.
>
> The welder feels that the fitting may have been broken during landing -
> currently, I don't think so. However, I will pressure test the fuel
> system
> to make sure there are no other leaks.
>
> My suggestion to others that have any welded parts in their aircraft -
> have
> them tested (X-rayed, etc.) prior to first use. This particular part was
> fine for over 2 years and 180 hours but was obviously an accident waiting
> to
> happen.
>
> Regards,
>
> Kevin
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
> Behalf Of Terry Miles
> Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 7:31 PM
> To: 'Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list'
> Subject: RE: REFLECTOR: I don't know this aircraft
>
> Kev,
> Good work. I know what you mean about count your blessings. Really glad
> that you're OK Terry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
> Behalf Of Alex Balic
> Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 5:04 PM
> To: velocity_AZ at cox.net; 'Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list'
> Subject: RE: REFLECTOR: I don't know this aircraft
>
>
> Hey Kevin-
> Glad you are OK, I am sure you did a great job on the dead stick
> landing- hope you are airborne again soon :)
>
> Alex
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
> Behalf Of Velocity_AZ
> Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 12:41 PM
> To: amillin at sbcglobal.net; 'Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list'
> Subject: RE: REFLECTOR: I don't know this aircraft
>
> Andy -
>
> It's my plane - Deception - which is a 173 (standard fuselage with XL
> wings
> - fixed gear)
>
> I called in for landing 20 out. At 10 out, 3500-4000' decsending, I
> smelled
> fuel. Very shortly after that the engine quit. I was extemely lucky that
> I
> had that wash below. I was only about 2000' AGL and decision time was
> extemely limited. I touched down at one end of the wash with plenty of
> room
> ahead. The ground, while pretty level, was rocky. She stopped in about
> 300' feet. The universe also granted me a direct headwind.
>
> Wheel pants destroyed from the rough terrain - stress crack in gear -
> don't
> know how deep (could be just be paint). Minor fiberglass damage in lower
> cowl around exhaust and upper cowl at spinner and upper gear cuffs due to
> vibration on roll out. There may be more damage to landing gear - just
> haven't examined it further yet.
>
> We should all take comfort in knowing that our Velocitys are strong.
>
> Here's something I'd like some feedback on from those flying. Just a few
> weeks ago I was practicing engine out procedures and noticed that between
> 90-100kts my sink rate is 1000-1100' per minute. Basically without the
> big
> fan working - it's a rock. What have others experienced?
>
> Upon taking the plane apart for transport yesterday, I did find the
> problem
> - the fitting between the fuel hose and the throttlebody cracked. That's
> why
> I smelled fuel and why the engine quit. 24 Gallons on-board can't really
> help if it's no longer making its way to the engine.
>
> All in all, yesterday was a very good day - no injury, it happened close
> to
> home, the plane is in pretty good shape, she was due for her annual next
> month and she' already disassembled, and mostly - I writing this to you
> guys
> now.
>
> Regards,
>
> Kevin Steiner
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
> Behalf Of Andy Millin
> Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 10:11 AM
> To: 'Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list'
> Subject: REFLECTOR: I don't know this aircraft
>
> No injury is good.
>
> ************************************************************************
> ****
> ****
> ** Report created 6/13/2005 Record 1
> **
> ************************************************************************
> ****
> ****
>
> IDENTIFICATION
> Regis#: 111VX Make/Model: EXP Description: EXP- VELOCITY
> XL
> Date: 06/12/2005 Time: 2349
>
> Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing:
> N
> Damage: Minor
>
> LOCATION
> City: PEORIA State: AZ Country: US
>
> DESCRIPTION
> PILOT REPORTED 20M W WITH INFORMATION. THREE MINUTES LATER PILOT REPORTED
> A
> LOST ENGINE AND WOULD NOT MAKE THE ARPT. ACFT LANDED IN A WASH 12 MI WEST
> OF ARPT
>
> INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0
> # Crew: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0
> Unk:
>
> # Pass: 0 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0
> Unk:
>
> # Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0
> Unk:
>
>
> WEATHER: 122345Z VRB06KT/10SM CLR 34/04 2977
>
> OTHER DATA
> Activity: Unknown Phase: Cruise Operation: General Aviation
>
> Departed: UNKN Dep Date: Dep. Time:
> Destination: Flt Plan: UNK Wx
> Briefing:
> U
> Last Radio Cont: 12M W DEER VALLEY ARPT
> Last Clearance: CLRD TO LND AY RWY
>
> FAA FSDO: SCOTTSDALE, AZ (WP07) Entry date: 06/13/2005
>
>
>
> =========================================
>
> Andrew Millin
> Kalamazoo Software, llc
> 5585 Collingwood Dr.
> Kalamazoo MI 49004
> (269) 345-2564
> amillin at kal-soft.com
>
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