REFLECTOR: Franklin seal leak
Scott Derrick
scott at tnstaafl.net
Wed Apr 20 09:36:43 CDT 2005
If you can get it out with out touching the lip that seals around the
shaft , good for you.. I always end up ripping them up.
Also seals are cheap, my time is limited.
I've installed a few seals over the prop flange, its amazing how far
they can stretch with the stiffeners removed.
Scott
mike deeter wrote:
>John,
>
>Notwithstanding Steve's comments (undoubtedly correct)
>I did try prying the seal out of its seat and applying
>the sealant. It's a real pain to try to get a new
>seal over the prop flange. I can't figure out how
>you'd do it. Also, you have a leak now; it probably
>won't get worse if you remove the seal, clean it up
>and apply sealant. You'll probably be no worse off.
>I was able to pry the seal out and work w/ it w/ no
>visible damage.
>
>Alternatively, you could try my gasket fix. It wasn't
>hard and I don't see a downside, even if it shouldn't
>be necessary.
>
>I forgot to check on the sealant I used. I'll check
>and get back to you.
>
>Mike
>
>
>--- Scott Derrick <scott at tnstaafl.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>>If its like any other crank shaft seal I've seen its
>>not possible and
>>highly discouraged to reuse seal that has been
>>removed.
>>
>>Your just asking for leak.
>>
>>Scott
>>
>>John Dibble wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Mike, Steve,
>>>Today I few 1/2 hour to get my prop balanced. The
>>>
>>>
>>seal didn't leak a bit. The
>>
>>
>>>procedure took to long and my oil got overheated,
>>>
>>>
>>and it started leaking again. I'm
>>
>>
>>>going to try the sealant. I'd prefer not to remove
>>>
>>>
>>the seal and risk damaging it.
>>
>>
>>>How do you remove the seal without damage? Do you
>>>
>>>
>>think applying sealant to the back
>>
>>
>>>side only will help?
>>>
>>>John
>>>
>>>Mike Deeter wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>John:
>>>>
>>>>I did remove the seal to look at it and found that
>>>>
>>>>
>>the sealant used was
>>
>>
>>>>dried up. I cleaned the seal and casing surface.
>>>>
>>>>
>>Then I gooped up
>>
>>
>>>>(it's a standard industry technical term) the
>>>>
>>>>
>>outer surface of the seal,
>>
>>
>>>>plopped it back in, and smeared the outside of the
>>>>
>>>>
>>seal in an attempt to
>>
>>
>>>>make sure there was unbroken sealant all the way
>>>>
>>>>
>>around. I also
>>
>>
>>>>fabricated a gasket from gasket material I bought
>>>>
>>>>
>>at Tractor Supply
>>
>>
>>>>which closes off the same gap. It has no effect
>>>>
>>>>
>>on the seal between the
>>
>>
>>>>inner surface of the seal and the crankshaft. I
>>>>
>>>>
>>can't remember what the
>>
>>
>>>>sealant was but I'll check in a few hours when I'm
>>>>
>>>>
>>at the hangar and get
>>
>>
>>>>back to you. In any case, it was a common
>>>>
>>>>
>>automotive form-a-gasket type
>>
>>
>>>>sealant. It wasn't cement, though.
>>>>
>>>>Mike
>>>>
>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>[mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
>>
>>
>>>>Behalf Of John Dibble
>>>>Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 11:27 AM
>>>>To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
>>>>Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Franklin seal leak
>>>>
>>>>I wondered about that. When I replaced the seal,
>>>>
>>>>
>>the shop didn't have
>>
>>
>>>>the special
>>>>cement that the instructions specified, so I used
>>>>
>>>>
>>common automotive
>>
>>
>>>>cement. Since it
>>>>lasted 28 hours, I figured the cement wasn't an
>>>>
>>>>
>>issue and I hadn't
>>
>>
>>>>checked because I
>>>>have to remove the pickup for the Rose EI, but I
>>>>
>>>>
>>guess I'll have to
>>
>>
>>>>check. What type
>>>>of cement did you use? Do I understand correctly
>>>>
>>>>
>>that you didn't remove
>>
>>
>>>>the seal,
>>>>just put the cement on the back side?
>>>>
>>>>John
>>>>
>>>>mike deeter wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>All:
>>>>>
>>>>>I had significant leakage out of my crankshaft
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>seal
>>
>>
>>>>>and found that it was leaking out around the
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>outside
>>
>>
>>>>>of the seal, i.e., between the engine casing and
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>the
>>
>>
>>>>>outer surface of the seal, NOT between the shaft
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>and
>>
>>
>>>>>the inner surface of the seal. I did two things:
>>>>>fabricated a gasket to cover the above-mentioned
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>area,
>>
>>
>>>>>and gooped it w/ sealant there as well. That
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>seemed
>>
>>
>>>>>to fix the problem.
>>>>>
>>>>>I actually think the gasket was overkill; in the
>>>>>directions for changing the seal, I think (my
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>failing
>>
>>
>>>>>memory at play here) it says to apply some
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>sealant
>>
>>
>>>>>where I mentioned above. Mine had evidence it
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>came
>>
>>
>>>>>that way but it was all dried up. I changed the
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>seal
>>
>>
>>>>>but, frankly, it didn't look any the worse for
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>wear
>>
>>
>>>>>and I probably just needed to add the sealant.
>>>>>
>>>>>Try the sealant first. It's easy and you can try
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>the
>>
>>
>>>>>gasket if that doesn't work.
>>>>>
>>>>>Mike
>>>>>
>>>>>--- John Dibble <aminetech at bluefrog.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Thanks Steve. That's an interesting point about
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>oil
>>
>>
>>>>>>temp. Mine normally run 92-98 C
>>>>>>(198-208F). When I replaced the seal there was
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>a
>>
>>
>>>>>>lot of dark brown deposit on the
>>>>>>shaft and I wonder if this abraded the seal and
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>made
>>
>>
>>>>>>it start leaking. I assume the
>>>>>>deposit came from degradation of the oil,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>perhaps
>>
>>
>>>>>>due to a high temp. What are your
>>>>>>oil temps (before and now)?
>>>>>>When I bought my Velocity it had 205 hours and
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>the
>>
>>
>>>>>>seal was not leaking. I flew it for
>>>>>>about 100 hours before the seal began leaking.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>I
>>
>>
>>>>>>wonder if one's operating habits
>>>>>>(MAP, rpm, and amount of leaning) have any
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>impact.
>>
>>
>>>>>>Do you balance the prop?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Steve wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>My Franklin has only 65 hrs on it. I have
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>already
>>
>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>replaced the
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>crankshaft seal due to it leaking oil. It still
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>leaked with a new seal.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I have also been working on getting my oil temp
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>down ... with some
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>success. Since the oil temps came down, the oil
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>leaking from the
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>crankshaft seal stopped leaking., so maybe its
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>a
>>
>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>temperature related
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>thing ??
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Pure coincidence, I happened to check for any
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>play
>>
>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>in the crankshaft
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>last week and was surprised to find a little
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>play
>>
>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>up and down but none
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>from side to side. I am still pondering this
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>when
>>
>>
>>
>=== message truncated ===
>
>
>*******************************************
>Mike Deeter
>N2011 Test Pilot
>iguanamagic at yahoo.com
>http://iguanamagic.siegesmund.org
>*******************************************
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