REFLECTOR:AERO COMPOSITES PUSHER PROP

Thu Jul 8 19:50:40 CDT 2004

I went to http://www.aerocomposites.com and signed up for their mailing
list.  I said I am in the market for a prop for my Velocity XLRG and said I
may be able to wait until next spring to purchase one.  I got a reply from
Harry.  Here it is...

Darrell:
Thanks for your information.  We will be ready when you are.  We have had
lots of interest from the Velocity community and orders.  We have production
spots in December 04 and January 05.
Harry

No mention of cost, but it appears they are moving forward with a pusher
prop design.

Darrell Kufalk
building an XLRG in Waukesha WI

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Velocity xl" <velocityxl at fastmail.fm>
To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
Sent: Monday, July 05, 2004 9:24 PM
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:AERO COMPOSITES PUSHER PROP

> One thing to keep in mind about a tough prop is if it does not give
> something else will. And that something could cost a lot more than
> the propeller .On boats you use aluminum
> bladed props if you think you might hit some thing. And stainless if
> you are sure the water is deep and free of debris. If you hit some thing
> hard enough  with aluminum prop you lose a prop, if you hit some thing
> with a stainless prop you ding the prop and loose the lower unit.
>
> $100 aluminum prop
> $600 stainless prop
> $3,000 lower unit
>
>
> Food for thought.
>
> Ron
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "KeithHallsten" <KeithHallsten at quiknet.com>
> To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
> Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 4:53 PM
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:AERO COMPOSITES PUSHER PROP
>
>
> > Scott,
> >
> > The blades of an MT prop are wood (beech near the hub, spruce further
out)
> > with two layers of bid laid up wet over the wood.  The Aerocomposites
prop
> > has several layers of carbon fiber alternating with woven fiberglass
tubes
> > over a foam core.  The epoxy is injected in the mold by vacuum-assisted
> > resin transfer, which guarantees no voids and complete wet-out.  The
epoxy
> > itself is a special super-tough formulation that can be deflected
> > significantly without cracking.
> >
> > The superior toughness of the Aerocomposites prop was proven when a
> tractor
> > airplane had a nose-gear collapse on landing.  After a few powerful
> > propstikes on the runway, the engine quit and the plane skidded to a
stop
> > supported on two blade tips of the 3-blade prop!  I don't remember the
> > details of this incident, but the image made an impression on me!
> Contrast
> > this with any MT prop that's hit something hard - splinters!
> >
> > The aerodynamics suuperiority stems mostly from the thinner section that
> is
> > possible with the carbon-fiber construction.  It's well dcoumented in
> > performance increases with tractor aircraft.  See, for example, the
> > testimonials on the Aerocomposites website.  Although these are
anecdotal,
> I
> > think you will find a lot of Aerocomposites props on the air race
winners
> > this year.
> >
> > All that said, I have not yet concluded that I can justify the increased
> > cost on my plane.
> >
> > Keith
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Scott Derrick" <scott at tnstaafl.net>
> > To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
> > Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 5:32 AM
> > Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:AERO COMPOSITES PUSHER PROP
> >
> >
> > > $15,000 sounds like a lot, when an MT is about $10,000.
> > >
> > > How did you evaluate its aerodynamic efficiency and in mechanical
> > strength?
> > >
> > > Scott
> > >
> > > At 10:23 PM 7/1/2004, you wrote:
> > > >I did have an extended conversation with the owner of American
> Propeller
> > at
> > > >Golden West.  I told him that I thought Aerocomposites was going to
> find
> > it
> > > >a hard sell to Velocity owners/builders at the price that they were
> > asking.
> > > >He took it to heart and said he would discuss it with Aerocomposites
> and
> > get
> > > >back to me.  Sure enough, Cory called me today to advise that the
price
> > for
> > > >the pusher prop for Velocities has been reduced.  It's now back to
> $13.9K
> > > >for the prop and $950 for the spinner, for a total of $14,850.  I had
> > been
> > > >hoping for a little more move in this direction, but at least we have
> > some
> > > >movement!  See http://www.aerocomposites.com
> > > >
> > > >I did spend a little time examining an AeroComposites blade in
> comparison
> > to
> > > >an MT blade in American Propeller's booth.  It is clearly a better
> blade,
> > > >both in aerodynamic efficiency and in mechanical strength and
> toughness.
> > > >Even lightning protection!  Now we have to decide whether these
> > advantages
> > > >can justify the price premium!
> > > >
> > > >Keith Hallsten, XLFG
> > > >Still contemplating a propeller order!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > >From: "KeithHallsten" <KeithHallsten at quiknet.com>
> > > >To: <reflector at tvbf.org>
> > > >Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 11:42 AM
> > > >Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:AERO COMPOSITES PUSHER PROP
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > The latest on the price situation is that AeroComposites appears
to
> > have
> > > > > raised their price for the pusher prop and spinner recently.  It's
> now
> > > > > listed as $14.9K for the prop and $1.15K for the spinner kit, for
a
> > total
> > > >of
> > > > > $16,050 plus tax and shipping and handling from Redding, CA.  If I
> can
> > get
> > > > > TWO MTs for the price of one AeroComposites prop, it kind of makes
> the
> > > > > superior toughness of the AC come at a pretty high price!  I'll
talk
> > to
> > > > > American Propeller at the Golden West fly-in and see what story
they
> > tell.
> > > > >
> > > > > Keith Hallsten, XLFG
> > > > > Engine on order, trying to decide on a prop!
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Scott Derrick" <scott at tnstaafl.net>
> > > > > To: <reflector at tvbf.org>
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2004 5:36 AM
> > > > > Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:AERO COMPOSITES PUSHER PROP
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Here's a quote for an MT I just got.  Almost half the price.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hi Scott,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have an MT Propeller similar to the MTV-12-B/LD168-101b  3
blade
> > > > > > hydraulic propeller listed for the Velocity.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Is your engine set up for a hydraulic CS propeller?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > List price for this propeller is $9,850 to be delivered from
> > Germany.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If this is the correct propeller for your Velocity, I can offer
it
> > to
> > > >you
> > > > > > for $8,150 assembled in Southern California.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I will check with MT Propeller to make certain I am quoting the
> > correct
> > > > > > propeller for your Velocity.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There is also an MT elec. CS propeller available for your
engine,
> if
> > you
> > > > > > are not set up for the hydraulic CS propeller.
> > > > > > Let me know which will work best for you.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Where are you located (city, state)?
> > > > > > I would like to be able to provide you with an assembled and
> > delivered
> > > > > > price, if you are not in Southern California.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 7.25% State Sales tax for California Residents
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Jim Ayers
> > > > > > Less Drag Products, Inc.
> > > > > > <mailto:jim at lessdrag.com>jim at lessdrag.com
> > > > > > www.lessdrag.com
> > > > > > (805) 795-5377
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > At 10:23 PM 4/26/2004, Keith Hallsten wrote:
> > > > > > >No, the "Spinner Kit"  (You cut out for blades, sand & paint)
is
> an
> > > > > > >additional $950.  So we're pretty close to that $15K number.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >However, if their claims for superior durability actually work
> out
> > in
> > > > > > >operation, that might come out cheap, compared to initial cost
+
> > repair
> > > >of
> > > > > > >an MT.  It will be interesting to see how this works out.  They
> > have a
> > > > > > >pretty good story on their website with regard to design and
> > > > > > >manufacturing.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Keith Hallsten, XLFG (no prop ordered yet)
> > > > > > >Roseville, CA
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > >From: <mailto:sbakr at comcast.net>Scott Baker
> > > > > > >To: <mailto:reflector at tvbf.org>reflector at tvbf.org
> > > > > > >Sent: Monday, April 26, 2004 3:31 PM
> > > > > > >Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:AERO COMPOSITES PUSHER PROP
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Actually, when Velocity first talked with Aero Composites a
> little
> > over
> > > >a
> > > > > > >year ago to do a joint-development of a pusher propeller, they
> were
> > > > > > >thinking in the $14K to $15K range.  I'm not sure if the $13.9K
> > price
> > > > > > >includes a spinner, or not.  Hopefully it does.
> > > > > > >Scott B.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >_______________________________________________
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> > >
> > >
> > > "Those who sacrifice freedom to get security, deserve neither."
> > > - Benjamin Franklin
> > >
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> >
> >
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>
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