REFLECTOR: Props and runway surfaces (was XLRG on grass)

KeithHallsten KeithHallsten at quiknet.com
Wed Jul 7 01:09:39 CDT 2004 

Dave,
That's a tremendous development!  I have Lycon building me a 260 hp IO-540,
but I haven't committed to a prop for my XL yet.  I will be extremely
interested in the results of your test!
Keith Hallsten

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dave Dent" <davedent at comcast.net>
To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 8:03 PM
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Props and runway surfaces (was XLRG on grass)


> I had a long talk with Catto today.  It was most interesting.  When he
gets
> back from France he and I are putting together a test.  Before he gets
back
> I am doing a data collection on the MT with my XL  Then he's going to
build
> me a fixed pitch prop like he did for my the EZ and Cozy.  Of course it
will
> be for a IO-540 260hp engine.  Much like he did for the Jack Morrison
> supercharged E-racer that is pushing a IO-540.  And seeing better then
> 270Kts.  But he will design it around the Velocity XL specs needed, to
come
> within 10% of what the MT can do   I told him it wouldn't be hard.  Also
it
> will be better explosion proof prop, unlike the MT's.  I have seen what a
> Catto prop can take and survive.
>
> I know one thing the construction would be a lot better and  it will cost
> close to $10,000 Less.  Let alone do away with the pitch control issue and
> all that goes with it.
>
> If you want to see one on the IO-540 take a look at the November 2003
Sport
> Aviation Magazine. Page 44.
> I know with our EZ and Cozy climbing out at 1800fpm and cursing at 170Kts
is
> nothing to sneeze at.
> A friend of mine took the Hartzel CS off his RV-4 and put the Catto fixed
on
> and he only lost 100fpm on climb and increased on the top end.  Of course
he
> lost 30lbs plus off the nose as well.
>
> I knew there had to be a better way.   With these new airfoils that he is
> coming up with, for the props on light planes the CS props are a waste,
> unless you live in the very high altitudes.  Believe me, the prop is the
> second most important part on the aircraft.  Without you are nothing but a
> glider, but we shouldn't have to pay the cost of sometimes half the price
of
> a new engine to replace it.  And just to have MT repair, and they don't,
you
> pay half the price of a new one.  Not good.
>
> I will keep you guys posted on the progress when we get into the testing
> with the fixed pitch.
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "KeithHallsten" <KeithHallsten at quiknet.com>
> To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 6:25 PM
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Props and runway surfaces (was XLRG on grass)
>
>
> > Yes, there are no props that won't be damaged, but it seems that the MTs
> are
> > more fragile than average.  That's one reason why I'm still entertaining
> the
> > thought of the pricy Aerocomposites prop.  I'm sure it will safely take
a
> > bit more of the normal wear and tear that the real world inflicts upon
all
> > things than an MT will.  Probably along the lines of a Catto!
> > Keith
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Greg Poole" <gpoole at zeta.org.au>
> > To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 1:52 PM
> > Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: XLRG on Grass
> >
> >
> > > In my experience there are grass strips (finely manicured, high %
> coverage
> > > and no stones, sand or sticks) and there are grass strips (grass 4"
> long,
> > > 45% coverage, heaps of small to medium stones to vacuum up) so it is
> hard
> > to
> > > draw comparisons when you only have a couple to draw on.
> > >
> > > My experience with Leon Howe's XL (that Dave Dent now has in
California)
> > is
> > > that the damage to the 3rd set of MT prop blades (within TT of 40hrs)
> that
> > > was on the plane (the first was destroyed in a hard landing, the 2nd
set
> > > (you saw in my pictures that Dave Black reposted here) lost 6" off two
> > > blades while we were away on a trip, and the 3rd set had very little
> time
> > > before Mr Dent  bought the aircraft - is that the majority of stone
> damage
> > > occurred on takeoff, landing and runups on tar.  The XL would likely
> take
> > > slightly more revs to get rolling on rough surfaces than a Std
> fuselage -
> > > perhaps that might be another factor involved?
> > >
> > > Unfortunately all sets of prop blades looked beaten after just a half
> > dozen
> > > takeoffs and landings. I think our experience backs John Ward's
> experience
> > > except we might have alot more stones sitting on our asphalt than the
US
> > > has. My memory of Sebastian FL aerodrome is one of a similar surface
as
> we
> > > have where Leon's plane operated out of. I know the factory regularly
> > > refinishes the MT prop blades on its' airplanes but do not recall
seeing
> > the
> > > same amount of dings for time in use that we experienced.
> > >
> > > I'm looking to put deflectors on my mains and nosegear and to use a
more
> > > resilient c/s prop than the MT if I can find one ....methinks MT might
> be
> > > making to much money from repairing blades to bother with putting any
> > effort
> > > into making a stronger, more resilient blade..
> > >
> > > Greg in Sydney.
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > > From: "johnward" <n120rj at gulftel.com>
> > > To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 3:03 AM
> > > Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: XLRG on Grass
> > >
> > >
> > > > Tim, I'm the John Ward that Ronnie mentioned and I operate my
Standard
> > > > Velocity RG Elite from a 2,500 foot turf strip.  The engine is an
> > > IO-360C1e6
> > > > with MT prop.  I wouldn't operate from here if I didn't own the
strip
> > > > because it's barely long enough.  Have to be pretty light on fuel if
I
> > > have
> > > > a passenger.  The only prop damage, mostly sand abrasion of paint
and
> > > stone
> > > > dings were when I flew off the initial hours after certification at
> > > > Sebastian.  The prop has since been repainted and looks like new
> except
> > > for
> > > > one ding from a stone (I think) that happened at RYY, a paved
runway.
> I
> > > > have a total of 155 hours on the plane and I would prefer a grass
> strip
> > > but
> > > > a nice long one like Leeward Air Ranch in central Florida.  The only
> > > > downside I have from the turf strip is the dead bug residue on the
> prop
> > > that
> > > > is more prevalent than from a paved surface.  I guess you could hit
> the
> > > > grass on rotation but that hasn't been a problem since it's mowed
once
> a
> > > > week in the growing season.  I don't believe the grass
> clipping/residue
> > > that
> > > > may hit the prop is going to any more significant than the bugs that
> run
> > > > into the prop.  I have friends with an XL and long EZ that haven't
had
> a
> > > > problem at my strip.
> > > > Hope this helps,
> > > > John Ward
> > > > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > > > From: <TimRhod at aol.com>
> > > > To: <reflector at tvbf.org>
> > > > Sent: Monday, July 05, 2004 10:08 PM
> > > > Subject: REFLECTOR: XLRG on Grass
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Can Anyone share their experience using the XLRG on grass strips.
> Does
> > > it
> > > > > hurt you MT prop if it hits the grass?  Does it hit the grass on
> > > rotation
> > > > or
> > > > > landing?   Any gear problems on grass. Im considering retiring to
> an
> > > > airpark
> > > > > and a lot of the ones I'm considering have grass Strips. If grass
is
> > OK
> > > > what
> > > > > would you consider a minimum runway length?   Thanks Tim
> Rhodenbaugh
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