REFLECTOR:High Taxi And Hold Temps.
Ronnie Brown
reflector@tvbf.org
Mon, 12 Jan 2004 13:46:32 -0500
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Like Scott mentioned yesterday, a key consideration for cooling this =
pusher is to make sure the engine cylinder baffles are correctly =
installed - no gaps at the crankcase. Also, make sure the wraps go =
around the bottom of the cylinder and only leave about 1.5 to 2" gaps at =
the bottom of he cylinders and heads for the air to exit from the =
cylinders. This sounds restrictive, but IT WORKS. It keeps the air =
flowing THROUGH the fins with good velocity. Also make certain that =
there is a wrap on the back of #4 (right, forward cylinder), because the =
Velocity supplied plenum leaves this area very open.
My NACA top inlets on my 173 Elite RG with Lycoming IO360 C1C (angle =
valve engine), will stay under 320-330 CHT's while taxiing, holding, =
etc. =20
On climb out, the hottest I have ever seen is 370-380 CHT and all I have =
to do is add airspeed, i.e., instead of 100 knot climb, reduce climb to =
120-130 knots, and the temps go back down. I did not have to seal my =
plenums with RTV but I did lay up 2 BID from the plenum onto duct taped =
cylinder block to close up the gaps.
My cruise CHT's are 320 - 360 degrees depending on RPM's and leaning. =
My oil temps stay under 210 on hot days, and runs 180-190 on cool days. =
I have good heat coming from my oil cooler too. I haven't flown below =
40 degrees, but I have to just about close off the heater to keep from =
getting too warm in the cabin. I have taken care to close up the gaps =
around the elevator torque tubes and closing up the space between the =
top of the canard and the canard cover.=20
I am very pleased with my Velocity engine cooling. I expected troubles =
from talking to other Velocity builders, but I have really been very =
pleasantly surprised with how well it works. Mark Machado had similar =
success with his 173 (now the standard factory trainer) when he changed =
from arm pit to top NACA scoops. I also noted that Mark had built BID =
wraps for the bottom of his plenums. Mine are Stainless Steel, but it =
doesn't matter what they are made of (aluminum will work too), make sure =
you have wraps on the bottom of the cylinders.
Incidentally, I have noticed that my front cylinders (3&4) run warm at =
higher speeds and the rear ones (1&2) run warmer at lower speeds. So I =
have not done anything to balance flows. Works good like it is.
Ronnie Brown
N713MR 110 hours
http://home.sprintmail.com/~rolandbrown/page10.html
----- Original Message -----=20
From: MikeWatsonSpg@cs.com=20
To: reflector@tvbf.org=20
Sent: Monday, January 12, 2004 1:04 PM
Subject: REFLECTOR:High Taxi And Hold Temps.
Does anyone else have any theories to alleviate the long taxi and hold =
heat situation?
Mike
Hi Mike
I confess to having those chimney hopes as well. I expanded the oil =
door opening to about a 1 foot by 1.5 foot opening, so I could do a =
better pre-flight check and occasionally wonder about running a cable =
back there to pop it open while I'm sitting on the ground as the cowling =
sure traps in the heat. I am pulling some ideas together to put in two =
small scoops on the belly to run air directly at the fins of cylinders 5 =
&6. as they just get too hot in climbing out, but I don't think that =
will do anything much to aid cooling when I'm sitting on the ground... =
but who knows.
Rodney Brim, Ph.D.
CEO, Performance Solutions Technology, LLC
Delivering goal+plan based technology/processes for highly coordinated =
and accountable management teams
www.performancesolutionstech.com or www.managepro.com
Ph. (562) 799-1267
-----Original Message-----
From: reflector-admin@tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-admin@tvbf.org]On =
Behalf Of MikeWatsonSpg@cs.com
Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2004 3:48 PM
To: reflector@tvbf.org
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Frankliln/IVO High Temps
Thanks Rodney,
I also have 10.5:1 ratio. If I have to hold for more than 15 minutes =
on a 85 degree
day, my CHT's approach 385 F. Usually I have to pull off at the run =
up area, shut
down for at lease 15 minutes.
I thought the heat would escape up through the ducks and out the =
nacca while
idling, like a chimney draft. I guess I was wrong.
Mike Watson=20
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Like Scott mentioned yesterday, a key consideration =
for=20
cooling this pusher is to make sure the engine cylinder baffles are =
correctly=20
installed - no gaps at the crankcase. Also, make sure the wraps go =
around=20
the bottom of the cylinder and only leave about 1.5 to 2" gaps at the =
bottom of=20
he cylinders and heads for the air to exit from the cylinders. =
This sounds=20
restrictive, but IT WORKS. It keeps the air flowing THROUGH the =
fins with=20
good velocity. Also make certain that there is a wrap on the back =
of #4=20
(right, forward cylinder), because the Velocity supplied plenum leaves =
this area=20
very open.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>My NACA top inlets on my 173 Elite RG with Lycoming =
IO360 C1C=20
(angle valve engine), will stay under 320-330 CHT's while taxiing, =
holding,=20
etc. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>On climb out, the hottest I have ever seen is =
370-380 CHT and=20
all I have to do is add airspeed, i.e., instead of 100 knot climb, =
reduce climb=20
to 120-130 knots, and the temps go back down. I did not have to =
seal my=20
plenums with RTV but I did lay up 2 BID from the plenum onto duct taped =
cylinder=20
block to close up the gaps.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>My cruise CHT's are 320 - 360 degrees depending on =
RPM's and=20
leaning. My oil temps stay under 210 on hot days, and runs 180-190 =
on cool=20
days. I have good heat coming from my oil cooler too. I =
haven't=20
flown below 40 degrees, but I have to just about close off the heater to =
keep=20
from getting too warm in the cabin. I have taken care to close up =
the gaps=20
around the elevator torque tubes and closing up the space between =
the top=20
of the canard and the canard cover. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I am very pleased with my Velocity engine =
cooling. I=20
expected troubles from talking to other Velocity builders, but I have =
really=20
been very pleasantly surprised with how well it works. Mark =
Machado had=20
similar success with his 173 (now the standard factory trainer) when he =
changed=20
from arm pit to top NACA scoops. I also noted that Mark had built =
BID=20
wraps for the bottom of his plenums. Mine are Stainless Steel, but =
it=20
doesn't matter what they are made of (aluminum will work too), make sure =
you=20
have wraps on the bottom of the cylinders.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Incidentally, I have noticed that my front cylinders =
(3&4) run warm at higher speeds and the rear ones=20
(1&2) run warmer at lower speeds. So I have not =
done=20
anything to balance flows. Works good like it is.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Ronnie Brown</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>N713MR 110 hours</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://home.sprintmail.com/~rolandbrown/page10.html">http://home.=
sprintmail.com/~rolandbrown/page10.html</A></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3DMikeWatsonSpg@cs.com=20
href=3D"mailto:MikeWatsonSpg@cs.com">MikeWatsonSpg@cs.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dreflector@tvbf.org=20
href=3D"mailto:reflector@tvbf.org">reflector@tvbf.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, January 12, 2004 =
1:04=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> REFLECTOR:High Taxi =
And Hold=20
Temps.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT lang=3D0 =
face=3DArial size=3D2=20
FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" PTSIZE=3D"10">Does anyone else have any theories =
to alleviate=20
the long taxi and hold heat situation?<BR><BR>Mike<BR><BR><BR><BR>Hi=20
Mike</FONT><FONT lang=3D0 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#000000 size=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" PTSIZE=3D"12"=20
BACK=3D"#ffffff"><BR></FONT><FONT lang=3D0 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: =
#ffffff"=20
face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" =
PTSIZE=3D"10"=20
BACK=3D"#ffffff">I confess to having those chimney hopes as well. I =
expanded the=20
oil door opening to about a 1 foot by 1.5 foot opening, so I could do =
a better=20
pre-flight check and occasionally wonder about running a cable back =
there to=20
pop it open while I'm sitting on the ground as the cowling sure traps =
in the=20
heat. I am pulling some ideas together to put in two small scoops on =
the belly=20
to run air directly at the fins of cylinders 5 &6. as they just =
get too=20
hot in climbing out, but I don't think that will do anything much to =
aid=20
cooling when I'm sitting on the ground... but who knows.</FONT><FONT =
lang=3D0=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=3DArial color=3D#000000 =
size=3D3=20
FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" PTSIZE=3D"12" =
BACK=3D"#ffffff"><BR><BR></FONT><FONT lang=3D0=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=3DArial color=3D#000080 =
size=3D4=20
FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" PTSIZE=3D"14" BACK=3D"#ffffff"><B>Rodney Brim,=20
Ph.D.</FONT><FONT lang=3D0 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#000000 size=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" PTSIZE=3D"12"=20
BACK=3D"#ffffff"></B><BR></FONT><FONT lang=3D0 =
style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"=20
face=3DTahoma color=3D#000000 size=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" =
PTSIZE=3D"10"=20
BACK=3D"#ffffff">CEO, Performance Solutions Technology, =
LLC</FONT><FONT lang=3D0=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=3DTahoma color=3D#000000 =
size=3D3=20
FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" PTSIZE=3D"12" BACK=3D"#ffffff"><BR></FONT><FONT =
lang=3D0=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=3DTahoma color=3D#000000 =
size=3D1=20
FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" PTSIZE=3D"8" BACK=3D"#ffffff">Delivering =
goal+plan based=20
technology/processes for highly coordinated and accountable management =
teams</FONT><FONT lang=3D0 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" =
face=3DTahoma=20
color=3D#000000 size=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" PTSIZE=3D"12"=20
BACK=3D"#ffffff"><BR></FONT><FONT lang=3D0 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: =
#ffffff"=20
face=3DTahoma color=3D#0000ff size=3D1 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" =
PTSIZE=3D"8"=20
BACK=3D"#ffffff"><A=20
=
href=3D"http://www.performancesolutionstech.com/">www.performancesolution=
stech.com</A>=20
or <A =
href=3D"http://www.managepro.com/">www.managepro.com</A></FONT><FONT=20
lang=3D0 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=3DTahoma =
color=3D#000000 size=3D3=20
FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" PTSIZE=3D"12" BACK=3D"#ffffff"><BR></FONT><FONT =
lang=3D0=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=3DTahoma color=3D#000000 =
size=3D1=20
FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" PTSIZE=3D"8" BACK=3D"#ffffff">Ph. (562) =
799-1267</FONT><FONT=20
lang=3D0 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=3DTahoma =
color=3D#000000 size=3D3=20
FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" PTSIZE=3D"12" BACK=3D"#ffffff"><BR></FONT><FONT =
lang=3D0=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=3DArial color=3D#000000 =
size=3D2=20
FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" PTSIZE=3D"10" BACK=3D"#ffffff"><BR></FONT><FONT =
lang=3D0=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=3DTahoma color=3D#000000 =
size=3D2=20
FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" PTSIZE=3D"10" BACK=3D"#ffffff">
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"=20
TYPE=3D"CITE">-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>=20
reflector-admin@tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-admin@tvbf.org]<B>On =
Behalf Of=20
</B>MikeWatsonSpg@cs.com<BR><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, January 11, 2004 =
3:48=20
PM<BR><B>To:</B> reflector@tvbf.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: =
REFLECTOR:=20
Frankliln/IVO High Temps<BR><BR></FONT><FONT lang=3D0=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=3DTahoma color=3D#000000 =
size=3D3=20
FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" PTSIZE=3D"12" BACK=3D"#ffffff"><BR></FONT><FONT =
lang=3D0=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=3DArial color=3D#000000 =
size=3D2=20
FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" PTSIZE=3D"10" BACK=3D"#ffffff">Thanks =
Rodney,<BR><BR>I also=20
have 10.5:1 ratio. If I have to hold for more than 15 minutes on a =
85=20
degree<BR>day, my CHT's approach 385 F. Usually I have to pull off =
at the=20
run up area, shut<BR>down for at lease 15 minutes.<BR><BR>I thought =
the heat=20
would escape up through the ducks and out the nacca while<BR>idling, =
like a=20
chimney draft. I guess I was wrong.<BR><BR>Mike Watson=20
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