REFLECTOR: Grand Rapids Engine Monitor

Sat Aug 28 10:03:38 CDT 2004

Actually Ronnie nowhere in your email below did you disagree.  It seemed 
more like you supported my claim that the GRT in its current configuration 
is designed more for the ultralight crowd.  Used on Rotax's??  How many  4 
place experimental are using that engine?  How many real 2 place enclosed 
are ?  not many..

I agree  the lower cost compared to Vision is very enticing, that was what 
peaked my initial interest.

I don't have a CS prop, and I think MAP is still needed.  Just like I think 
full egt/cht are needed.  MAP is a great indication of engine health, very 
usefull.

TIT is an EGT like measurement, very critical in a turbo installation.  The 
whole point of an engine monitor is to consolidate the information in a 
well organized and similar display for quick interpretation.   One of the 
most useful features of a "good" EIS is aural and/or visual alerts of out 
of bounds condition, the Vision and the GRT offer this.  If I have to 
install  individual gauges outside the EIS because the IES is inadequate to 
the task, the EIS has failed in its purpose. Installing separate gauges for 
TIT or fuel flow or what ever tells me I need to go somewhere else for an 
engine monitor.

As far as AMPS being useless,  how wrong can you be. Volts/Amps is like 
Fuel pressure/fuel flow or Oil pressure/oil temp.  individually they only 
tell you  part of the picture, together they tell you more than the sum of 
their parts.  Why not say you don''t need oil temp?   If the oil pressure's 
good the temp must be OK right?

I think the GRT is a fine instrument, but in its current configuration it 
"seems" to have the ultralight mentality in many ways.

Justify carb heat temp as a standard gauge!!!!  1950's type thinking.  How 
many V's or Longs', or Cozy's or  RV's are installing injected engines vs. 
carburated?

Airspeed on my engine monitor?? How useless is that unless you flying an 
ultralight with limited instrumentation.  Another  ultralight mentality 
designed in.

I think GRT is on the right track, I'm just not sure they are ready for a 6 
cylinder big bore engine...  I there answer to my inquiry confirms they are 
still think little plane, little engine.

Scott

At 07:17 AM 8/28/2004, you wrote:
>I disagree with your assessment of GRT.
>
>They may have started out as being focused on the ultralight crowd, but
>their EIS has evolved into a mighty fine engine monitoring instrument.  I
>have half a dozen friends flying with the EIS on Lycomings and Rotaxes and I
>have one on my Lycoming/Velocity. One even got rid of his Vision (talking
>about inflexible!!!) and installed a GRT.  Less room, lower cost and does
>the engine monitoring function much better and they are very reliable.
>
>Not everybody has a constant speed prop so they don't need the MAP like you
>do.  And very few homebuilts are running turbo charger so why should GRT
>include that.  If TIT is that important, you could put a dedicated display
>on it and vacuum too.  Or move one of your EGT's.  By the way, what is the
>difference between TIT and EGT?
>
>I don't know of anyone running GRT's color graphic display, but if GRT does
>their normally fine job, the graphic and EFIS will be excellent additions to
>the EIS line.
>
>Some suggestions - forget the AMPS - doesn't tell you anything about the
>health of the charging system that the voltmeter won't tell you.  Less than
>13.2 and the alternator isn't charging.  More than 14.8 and the regulator
>isn't working.  Anything in between is fine.
>
>Re the fuel level, you could wire the two fuel levels into one switch and
>feed that to the GRT if you run out of Aux inputs.  There are 4 aux inputs -
>two are used for MAP and Fuel Pressure.  That leaves 2. Fuel flow is an
>option but doesn't use the aux inputs.
>
>I used the Water temp input to monitor the exhaust air out of the Cowl.  My
>Velocity runs about 160 degrees.  I set the alarm at 200.
>
>In closing, I do have a high opinion of Grand Rapids Tech.  They have been
>around a long time and they have sold a BUNCH of EIS systems and support is
>fantastic.
>
>Ronnie Brown
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Scott Derrick" <scott at tnstaafl.net>
>To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>;
><reflector at tvbf.org>
>Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 11:05 AM
>Subject: REFLECTOR: Grand Rapids Engine Monitor
>
>
>| I was seriously considering swapping my 4 cylinder Vision for GRT's 6 cyl
>| graphical Engine monitor.  I looked over the specs and realized the aux
>| inputs were limited and the standard ones were wasted and not changeable
>| items like Carb temp and OAT.
>|
>| I asked their tech support about how I could make it work  with my
>| instrumentation needs.  They replied that I would just have to do without
>| TIT or some of the other items. Are they serious? They considered them not
>| really needed like fuel flow or manifold pressure???  While I haven't
>| completely crossed them off my list of possible's I think their product is
>| definitely oriented towards the ultralight  and wheenie simple engine
>market...
>|
>| Why would they force me to display Carb heat when most new engines are
>| injected? OAT is nice but way down on my list for an engine monitor.
>|
>| here was my request.
>|
>|  > I'm in the process of upgrading to a TSIO520 and will need to replace
>the
>|  > engine monitor I have now.
>|  >
>|  > I like the 6000 combined with the graphical display.
>|  >
>|  > However I can't see how I can display everything I need.
>|  >
>|  > Here's your built in functions
>|  > 6  Exhaust Gas Temperatures
>|  > 6 Cylinder Head Temperatures
>|  > Tachometer
>|  > Oil Temperature
>|  > Oil Pressure
>|  > Outside Air Temperature( I have one of these already, can it be used
>for
>| something else?)
>|  > Voltmeter
>|  > Carburetor Temperature  ( I won't need this, can I use it for something
>|  > else like TIT?)
>|  >
>|  >
>|  > Heres what I need to add ( 8 items)
>|  > Manifold Pressure ( I'm surprised this isn't in the built in functions)
>|  > Fuel Pressure(same with this one)
>|  > Fuel Flow( and this one two)
>|  > 2 Fuel Level  Gages(using capacitive sending units)
>|  > Tubine Inlet Temp (TIT)
>|  > Ammeter(this should be standard)
>|  > Vacuum
>|
>| "Those who sacrifice freedom to get security, deserve neither."
>| - Benjamin Franklin
>|
>|
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