REFLECTOR: Aileron self-centering

Tue Aug 3 21:30:18 CDT 2004

  What am I missing.  We have done aileron rolls with N244FM the plane
respons beautifully and I have just a standard set up except my tubes are
steel rather than the aluminum.

  Fred

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: "Jim Agnew" <jim_agnew_2 at yahoo.com>
  To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
  Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 9:59 PM
  Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Aileron self-centering

  > Ronnie,
  >
  > The answer is simple, the AL tube in a direct twisting
  > application will deliver all of the torque and motion to
  > the aileron.  When it is swung through an arc the AL tub
  > will suddenly bow when the aileron load becomes to high and
  > the torque is transformed into a bowing of the tube rather
  > than moving the aileron.
  >
  > Jim
  > --- Ronnie Brown <romott at adelphia.net> wrote:
  >
  > > I'm not sure you have a problem.
  > >
  > > The 172 that I flew for 10 years didn't do a very good
  > > job of returning to
  > > wings level if you turned the yoke loose while in a turn.
  > >  In fact, if you
  > > were more than about 20-30 degrees banked, it would turn
  > > even steeper.
  > > Called spiral stability - I'm not sure I understand why
  > > that is desirable in
  > > a certified airplane.
  > >
  > > The tendency for an airplane to return to wings level is
  > > dihedral effect.
  > > The Velocity is supposed to be fairly good at trying to
  > > do this, although I
  > > haven't really tested this on my 173 Elite RG.  You
  > > wouldn't think the Velo
  > > would be as good as a C172, since the 172 is hanging
  > > under its wings - the
  > > Velo has mid wings, and they go straight out.  I guess
  > > the swept wings
  > > causes the dihedral effect.  I love the way mine flies,
  > > very stable for
  > > cross country and IFR.  And it handles well at low speed,
  > > on final.  Just
  > > lands fast like a canard.  Otherwise, GREAT airplane!
  > >
  > > Having the ailerons set at 1/2" down while centered
  > > sounds scary.  That
  > > would cause a pretty good pitch "down" effect.  Are you
  > > saying that your
  > > ailerons go to faired straight neutral while in the air?
  > > Sounds like
  > > something is giving too much slop in your aileron control
  > > linkages?
  > >
  > > My ailerons have one piece torque tubes - no connector
  > > near the aileron end.
  > > I don't see the slop or give that some folks say they see
  > > with the "off
  > > center" aluminum torque tube arrangement.  I can't see
  > > that it matters where
  > > the torque tube is mounted in relationship to the hinge
  > > line.  As long as
  > > the torque tube is attached in such a way that it points
  > > to the aileron bell
  > > crank at the root of the wing, I don't understand the
  > > "wrap-up" that you
  > > mention.
  > >
  > > Ronnie
  > >
  > >
  > >
  > >
  > >
  > >
  > > ----- Original Message -----
  > > From: "Lynn Gallup" <LGallup at mn.rr.com>
  > > To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list"
  > > <reflector at tvbf.org>
  > > Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 6:17 PM
  > > Subject: REFLECTOR: Aileron self-centering
  > >
  > >
  > > | Velo-people,
  > > | A while back I started a thread called "aileron
  > > stiffness". This really
  > > | related more to the degree of aileron self-centering
  > > following a turn than
  > > | to stiffness per se.  On my airplane I thought the
  > > ailerons displayed
  > > almost
  > > | no self-centering in flight and I attributed this to
  > > stiffness or friction
  > > | in the system.
  > > |
  > > | I noticed that on the ground the aileron control seemed
  > > fairly smooth and
  > > | easy compared to in-flight so I decided to reject the
  > > "stiffness and
  > > | friction" hypothesis and look elsewhere. I postulated
  > > that there might be
  > > | some kind of "slack" or "wrap-up" in the system due,
  > > possibly, to bending
  > > of
  > > | the aileron torque tubes because they are not attached
  > > at the center of
  > > | pivot of the ailerons. As an experiment, I adjusted the
  > > ailerons so they
  > > had
  > > | a half-inch of droop when centered. I felt this would
  > > torque-load the
  > > system
  > > | in flight and I should feel at least something
  > > different. I have now flown
  > > | the airplane about ten hours this way and pretty much
  > > put it through it's
  > > | paces. My feeling is that the change definitely helped
  > > but not enough.
  > > |
  > > | I believe the aileron droop idea is really a
  > > second-order fix, good enough
  > > | for an experiment but not the primary factor so I
  > > really don't want to
  > > | increase the droop;  I might break something - Like my
  > > head. So I am now
  > > | thinking about two things (1) replacing the aluminum
  > > aileron torque tubes
  > > | with steel and/or (2) installing universal joints where
  > > the tubes attach
  > > to
  > > | the ailerons.
  > > |
  > > | Have any of you had any experience with either of these
  > > ideas?
  > > |
  > > | Regards,
  > > | Lynn
  > > |
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  >
  > =====
  > James F. Agnew
  > Jim_Agnew_2 at Yahoo.Com
  > Tampa, FL
  > Velocity 173 Elite Aircraft Completed & Flying
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