REFLECTOR:Velocity Manuals, Methods & Views
Christopher Barber
reflector@tvbf.org
Tue, 13 Apr 2004 11:30:14 -0500
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Chuck,
I respectfully disagree. A system that keeps us posted of changes and safety
issues could be done VERY cheaply. Something as simple as a broadcast
email....yeah, not all owners would be reached, but most would. Not all are
being reached now. All that would need to be done is have an email line on
the order form and that is added to the broadcast email list. Yes, that is
very simplistic, but a partial resolution. Hell, IF I had to pay a couple of
hundred for initial subscription, I might as well continue with VV....which,
btw, I plan to do. I like getting it even if I think it is obsolete as a
primary information media (and out of date as to most of its information....
other than for entertainment). Also, very labor intensive to sort through
for real information. (even though I liked seeing Kevin's bird highlighted).
I know not all builders have internet access at home, but ALL have access to
the internet via local libraries, colleges etc. To be able to easily go to a
web page and verify current changes and safety information seems to be a
good motivation to PAY ATTENTION. To use this as an excuse not to use a
better and and easy resource I think borders on negligence (strong word.
Sorry, but it is my opinion). I respect, like and appreciate the folks at
Velocity Inc. a great deal, however, I am extremely disappointed that they
are relying on, IMNSHO, dated arguments. I think it is a mistake that the
Velo web page does not have an alert page (and email list) that can be
easily updated by Brendan (sorry Brendan..more work. But he seems to be the
only one that focuses on Computer issues...maybe Scott B too). This can be
easily done by CHEAP software off the shelf. I AM NOT a computer guy, but
even I can do this kind of stuff. The only issue is the time and desire to
do it. Once implemented, very little time is needed.
I do not know what kind of deal Velo has with Lavorie graphics, but if it
were me, I would be annoyed at the inaccessible nature of updating the web
page easily. Maybe Rick does it for free and as a result it low priority.
I was recently told that the work on the Velocity Store page on the web was
done a while ago (if you have noticed it has been off line for several
months), but the web people have not posted it yet...NOW, information has
changed and thus it will be delayed further. I really would rather go to
this info page then AS&S FIRST.
I think that Velocity needs to get past the idea that the internet is a
novelty. Heck, I basically bought my kit over the internet (I did buy my
Jaguar online). I am not some freak power user...just pay attention to the
world around me.
One of the arguments seems to stem that everyone has a mailbox, thus VV is
the best media. But if not everyone subscribes, for whatever reason, it
does little good. When it can be made free and available but it is not AND
it is charged for, it is almost as if safety information is being held
hostage in return for a dollar (BTW, I don't think this, but it does not
look good). NOW, PLEASE NOTE, yes, I am an attorney, but I AM on VELOCITY's
side (and I am not usually a litigation attorney), and I am very much
against the abuse of the legal system (it should NOT be looked at as a
lottery), but, how would it sound to a jury to hear that the SAFETY
information is SOLD. I truly think the arguments are "old" (as is this
discussion) and not doing it "better" is a false economy. I think Velocity
has been quoted prices for internet issues that seemed very high at the
time. As a result the option was shelved. But it can be done economically
and in a streamlined manner. I hope the "powers that be" at Velocity take
their head out of the sand. FWIW.
All the best,
Chris
Christopher Barber
Attorney and Counselor at Law
"Serving the needs of Senior Texans"
Barber Law Firm
11930 S Sam Houston Pkwy E
Suite 103
Houston, Texas 77089-4755
281-464-LAWS (5297)
CBarber@TexasAttorney.net
www.TexasAttorney.net
-----Original Message-----
From: reflector-admin@tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-admin@tvbf.org]On Behalf
Of Chuck Jensen
Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2004 10:05 AM
To: 'reflector@tvbf.org'
Subject: RE: REFLECTOR:Velocity Manuals, Methods & Views
Kurt,
You bring up a good point...and bad point. Certainly, the good was your
discovering the deficient nose gear before it had a chance to bring itself
to your attention at a most awkward time. The bad point is the "system"
that would have you in a place where you have a known deficit part, and
didn't know it. Strictly my opinion, but in this day of computers,
internet, email and relational databases, it seems there ought to be a
better tracking/notification system.
Such a system would be a significant investment in setting it up, in that
there are already a few hundred planes of unknown history and pedigree that
would need to be entered. But once set up, it would have high utility value
to builders and would help prevent your very circumstance. If the Factory
(the obvious "owner" of the program) needed to recover some of the upfront
cost, they could ask a one time subscription fee of $200 or $300 to cover
initial costs. The budget-minded among the builders could just choose to
not participate and continue to rely on luck in obtaining the information.
I would expect that a quality control program of this sort would ultimately
come close to paying for itself as a strong selling point to new potential
buyers for the Factory.
I'm sure Scott could fill us in on the number of times that changeout of
the nose gear has been mentioned in VV and here-n-there, but you are
evidence that the "system" employed is still not good enough. From your
postings, it seems apparent that you take care, are merticulous and are
sometimes even anal on details (your description!), yet you (re)discovered
the problem by luck and happenstance. That's not really good enough for a
plane that ends up costing $100K+.
Still room to improve.
Chuck
[Chuck Jensen] -----Original Message-----
From: reflector-admin@tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-admin@tvbf.org]On Behalf
Of NMFlyer1@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2004 9:12 AM
To: reflector@tvbf.org
Subject: REFLECTOR:Velocity Manuals, Methods & Views
This has been an interesting couple weeks. I just thought I
would share a couple things.
I know you have read some of my posts regarding aileron and rudder
frustrations lately.
I have been working on my kit for quite some time (almost 3000 hours so
far). No fast build anything, almost nothing farmed out, and my change to
Chevy power eats up a LOT of time.
Due to the time line, many things have changed at Velocity. My old
manual is obviously outdated, but will usually work. On my ailerons, it did
not. The factory has always been helpful and patient, and my aileron quest
caused me to start printing out the newer On-Line plans. Of course, the new
plans and my old manual are similar in some areas, and quite different in
others.
I believe that a number of improvements and clarifications are located
in the new On-Line instructions that would be valuable to other builders
that have been building for some time.
There will be areas where the older parts or methods do not quite jive
with the new instructions. That can be dealt with, but I believe the newer
methods are much improved.
I ordered some parts from Aircraft Spruce & Headache, and my rudders
should be finished within a day or two of receiving the parts. The
relatively cheap parts will allow me to follow the newer methods in the
manual, and have better functioning and longer lasting rudder controls.
Since I have been building a while, I have a stack of velocity Views
about 3" thick. I read every one and check the KPC's in every issue. There
is always the possibility that one can miss some information, and that
happened to me.
The latest V-V Rehashed the issue on nose gear forks. Last night in the
hangar, I glanced down at my nose gear fork, and: Holy Batshit... It looks
like I have the obsolete nose gear fork!
Now I have to get my V-V from work and double check... but THAT is a
valuable piece of information! That one little piece of previously emparted
information could well have saved me enough headache and damage money to pay
for a life's subscription to V-V.
Just thought I'd share.... my TheRapist says it's good for me :)
All the best... Kurt Winker
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<DIV><SPAN class=3D951475615-13042004>Chuck,</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D951475615-13042004></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D951475615-13042004>I respectfully disagree. A system =
that keeps=20
us posted of changes and safety issues could be done VERY cheaply. =
Something as=20
simple as a broadcast email....yeah, not all owners would be reached, =
but most=20
would. Not all are being reached now. All that would need to be done is =
have an=20
email line on the order form and that is added to the broadcast email =
list. Yes,=20
that is very simplistic, but a partial resolution. Hell, IF I had to pay =
a=20
couple of hundred for initial subscription, I might as well continue =
with=20
VV....which, btw, I plan to do. I like getting it even if I think it is =
obsolete=20
as a primary information media (and out of date as to most of its=20
information.... other than for entertainment). Also, very labor =
intensive=20
to sort through for real information. (even though I liked seeing =
Kevin's bird=20
highlighted).</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D951475615-13042004></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D951475615-13042004>I know not all builders have =
internet access=20
at home, but ALL have access to the internet via local libraries, =
colleges etc.=20
To be able to easily go to a web page and verify current changes =
and safety=20
information seems to be a good motivation to PAY ATTENTION. To use =
this as=20
an excuse not to use a better and and easy resource I =
think=20
borders on negligence (strong word. Sorry, but it is my opinion). =
I=20
respect, like and appreciate the folks at Velocity Inc. a great =
deal,=20
however, I am extremely disappointed that they are relying on, IMNSHO, =
dated=20
arguments. I think it is a mistake that the Velo web page does not =
have=20
an alert page (and email list) that can be easily updated by =
Brendan=20
(sorry Brendan..more work. But he seems to be the only one that focuses =
on=20
Computer issues...maybe Scott B too). This can be easily done by =
CHEAP=20
software off the shelf. I AM NOT a computer guy, but even I can do =
this=20
kind of stuff. The only issue is the time and desire to do it. Once =
implemented,=20
very little time is needed.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D951475615-13042004></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D951475615-13042004>I do not know what kind of deal =
Velo has=20
with Lavorie graphics, but if it were me, I would be annoyed at the =
inaccessible=20
nature of updating the web page easily. Maybe Rick does it for =
free and as=20
a result it low priority. I was recently told that the work on the =
Velocity Store page on the web was done a while ago (if you have noticed =
it has=20
been off line for several months), but the web people have not posted it =
yet...NOW, information has changed and thus it will be delayed =
further. I=20
really would rather go to this info page then AS&S =
FIRST.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D951475615-13042004></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D951475615-13042004>I think that Velocity needs to get =
past the=20
idea that the internet is a novelty. Heck, I basically bought my kit =
over the=20
internet (I did buy my Jaguar online). I am not some freak power =
user...just pay=20
attention to the world around me. </SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D951475615-13042004></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D951475615-13042004>One of the arguments seems to stem =
that=20
everyone has a mailbox, thus VV is the best media. But if not =
everyone=20
subscribes, for whatever reason, it does little good. When it can =
be made=20
free and available but it is not AND it is charged for, it is =
almost as if=20
safety information is being held hostage in return for a dollar (BTW, I =
don't=20
think this, but it does not look good). NOW, PLEASE NOTE, yes, I =
am an=20
attorney, but I AM on VELOCITY's side (and I am not usually a litigation =
attorney), and I am very much against the abuse of the legal system (it =
should=20
NOT be looked at as a lottery), but, how would it sound to a jury to =
hear that=20
the SAFETY information is SOLD. I truly think the arguments =
are "old"=20
(as is this discussion) and not doing it "better" is a false economy. I =
think=20
Velocity has been quoted prices for internet issues that seemed very =
high at the=20
time. As a result the option was shelved. But it can be done =
economically and in=20
a streamlined manner. I hope the "powers that be" at Velocity take their =
head=20
out of the sand. FWIW.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D951475615-13042004></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D951475615-13042004>All the best,</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D951475615-13042004></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D951475615-13042004>Chris</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV><STRONG><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'CopprplGoth BT'">
<P class=3DSection1 style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><B><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'CopprplGoth BT'">Christopher =
Barber<?xml:namespace prefix =3D=20
o ns =3D "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" =
/><o:p></o:p></SPAN></B></P>
<P class=3DSection1 style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'CopprplGoth BT'; =
mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt">Attorney=20
and Counselor at Law<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DSection1 style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'CopprplGoth BT'; =
mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DSection1 style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><B><I><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'CopprplGoth BT'; =
mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt">"Serving=20
the needs of Senior Texans"</SPAN></I></B><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'CopprplGoth =
BT'"><BR><BR></SPAN><STRONG><U><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'CopprplGoth BT'">Barber Law=20
Firm</SPAN></U></STRONG><B><U><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'CopprplGoth BT'"><BR></SPAN></U></B><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'CopprplGoth BT'">11930 S Sam =
Houston Pkwy=20
E<BR>Suite 103<BR>Houston, Texas 77089-4755<BR></SPAN><B><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'CopprplGoth BT'; mso-bidi-font-size: =
10.0pt">281-464-LAWS=20
(5297</SPAN></B><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'CopprplGoth =
BT'">)<BR><BR><BR>CBarber@TexasAttorney.net<BR></SPAN><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><A =
href=3D"http://www.texasattorney.net/"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'CopprplGoth BT'"><FONT=20
color=3D#800080>www.TexasAttorney.net</FONT></SPAN></A></SPAN> </P>
<P class=3DSection1 style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"> </P>
<P class=3DSection1 style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" align=3Dleft><A=20
href=3D"http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=3DZSzeb001" =
target=3D_blank><IMG=20
alt=3DTexas src=3D"http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/462.gif" =
border=3D0=20
NOSEND=3D"1"></A></P></SPAN></STRONG>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> =
reflector-admin@tvbf.org=20
[mailto:reflector-admin@tvbf.org]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Chuck=20
Jensen<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, April 13, 2004 10:05 AM<BR><B>To:</B>=20
'reflector@tvbf.org'<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: REFLECTOR:Velocity =
Manuals,=20
Methods & Views<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D000283914-13042004>Kurt,</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D000283914-13042004></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D000283914-13042004>You bring up a good point...and =
bad=20
point. Certainly, the good was your discovering the deficient =
nose gear=20
before it had a chance to bring itself to your attention at a =
most=20
awkward time. The bad point is the "system" that would have =
you in=20
a place where you have a known deficit part, and didn't know it. =
Strictly my opinion, but in this day of computers, internet, email and =
relational databases, it seems there ought to be a better=20
tracking/notification system. </SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D000283914-13042004></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D000283914-13042004>Such a system would be a =
significant=20
investment in setting it up, in that there are already a few hundred =
planes of=20
unknown history and pedigree that would need to be entered. But =
once set=20
up, it would have high utility value to builders and would help =
prevent your=20
very circumstance. If the Factory (the obvious "owner" of the =
program)=20
needed to recover some of the upfront cost, they could ask a one time=20
subscription fee of $200 or $300 to cover initial costs. The=20
budget-minded among the builders could just choose to not participate =
and=20
continue to rely on luck in obtaining the information. I would =
expect=20
that a quality control program of this sort would ultimately come =
close=20
to paying for itself as a strong selling point to new potential buyers =
for the=20
Factory.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D000283914-13042004></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D000283914-13042004>I'm sure Scott could fill us in =
on the=20
number of times that changeout of the nose gear has been mentioned in =
VV and=20
here-n-there, but you are evidence that the "system" employed is =
still=20
not good enough. From your postings, it seems apparent that you =
take=20
care, are merticulous and are sometimes even anal on details =
(your=20
description!), yet you (re)discovered the problem by luck and=20
happenstance. That's not really good enough for a plane that =
ends up=20
costing $100K+.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D000283914-13042004></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D000283914-13042004>Still room to =
improve.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D000283914-13042004></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D000283914-13042004>Chuck</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D000283914-13042004></SPAN><FONT face=3DTahoma><FONT =
face=3DArial></FONT><FONT face=3DArial></FONT><BR><SPAN=20
class=3D000283914-13042004><FONT face=3DArial>[Chuck=20
Jensen] </FONT></SPAN>-----Original =
Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>=20
reflector-admin@tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-admin@tvbf.org]<B>On Behalf =
Of=20
</B>NMFlyer1@aol.com<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, April 13, 2004 9:12=20
AM<BR><B>To:</B> reflector@tvbf.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> =
REFLECTOR:Velocity=20
Manuals, Methods & Views<BR></FONT><BR><SPAN=20
=
class=3D000283914-13042004> &nbs=
p; =20
</SPAN>This has been an interesting couple weeks. I just thought I =
would share=20
a couple things.</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>I know you have read some of my posts regarding aileron and =
rudder=20
frustrations lately. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I have been working on my kit for quite some time (almost 3000 =
hours so=20
far). No fast build anything, almost nothing farmed out, and my =
change to=20
Chevy power eats up a LOT of time. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Due to the time line, many things have changed at Velocity. My =
old=20
manual is obviously outdated, but will usually work. On my ailerons, =
it did=20
not. The factory has always been helpful and patient, and my aileron =
quest caused me to start printing out the newer On-Line plans. =
Of=20
course, the new plans and my old manual are similar in some areas, =
and quite=20
different in others. </DIV>
<DIV> I believe that a number of improvements and =
clarifications are=20
located in the new On-Line instructions that would be valuable to =
other=20
builders that have been building for some time. </DIV>
<DIV>There will be areas where the older parts or methods do =
not quite=20
jive with the new instructions. That can be dealt with, but I =
believe the=20
newer methods are much improved. </DIV>
<DIV>I ordered some parts from Aircraft Spruce & Headache, and =
my=20
rudders should be finished within a day or two of receiving the =
parts. The=20
relatively cheap parts will allow me to follow the newer methods in =
the=20
manual, and have better functioning and longer lasting rudder =
controls.=20
</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Since I have been building a while, I have a stack of velocity =
Views=20
about 3" thick. I read every one and check the KPC's in every issue. =
There=20
is always the possibility that one can miss some information, and =
that=20
happened to me.</DIV>
<DIV>The latest V-V Rehashed the issue on nose gear forks. Last =
night in the=20
hangar, I glanced down at my nose gear fork, and: Holy Batshit... It =
looks=20
like I have the obsolete nose gear fork! </DIV>
<DIV>Now I have to get my V-V from work and double check... but THAT =
is a=20
valuable piece of information! That one little piece =
of previously=20
emparted information could well have saved me enough headache =
and=20
damage money to pay for a life's subscription to V-V. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Just thought I'd share.... my TheRapist says it's good for =
me :)=20
</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>All the best... Kurt =
Winker</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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