REFLECTOR:More Insurance Woes
Phil Hooper
reflector@tvbf.org
Tue, 6 May 2003 14:35:27 -0700
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Chuck, I like this idea. You would have to consider a stop-loss,
overarching policy for general protection, to cover the co-op in the =
event
of an excess of settlements. The key would be in "actuality," the low =
cost
of repairs carried out. Liability would be a separate issue. You are =
just
talking about hull, only, correct?
=20
The actuary biz in the insurance industry is volatile and flexible. It =
is
constantly changing based on "actuals." That is the name of the game. =
Any
chance that investors might benefit from paid interest, as in a mutual =
fund,
still protected by a stop-loss policy? =20
=20
You definitely would need some professional,
feet-glued-to-the-ground-of-reality, experienced counsel to pull it off.
Any builders in the insurance biz who can point the way? I have one =
contact
who has been an actuary.
=20
BTW, I bet a co-op has been discussed multiple times in the past!
=20
Blessings to all.
=20
Hoop
-----Original Message-----
From: reflector-admin@tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-admin@tvbf.org] On =
Behalf
Of Chuck Jensen
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2003 1:56 PM
To: 'reflector@tvbf.org'
Subject: RE: REFLECTOR:More Insurance Woes
All,
=20
The seeming endless inconsistencies and disparities of insurance =
practices
are not really incongruent when you consider that "they just make up the
rules as they go along." Honest, no kidding. Insurance underwriting =
and
the weather have one thing in common; they change daily...and usually =
for
the worse. As Hytec45 mentioned, the insurance companies took a =
whippin' on
9/11, and now we're the "whippees." =20
=20
It's so darn complicated, but a Coop for hull insurance that was talked
about in the Newsletter really does make good sense. Hull insurance is =
a
different animal than liability insurance because hull damage is
quantifiable and estimable, unlike liability which only stops at the =
limits
of a lawyer's mind. =20
=20
I'm not going to volunteer to set it up, but a non-profit Coop that =
charged
3-5% of the hull value and rebated the excess over the paid-loss =
experience
(and overhead), could end up providing hull insurance for an effective =
1-2%
of the hull value.....which is something we could all live with. The =
loss
experience on the Velocity since the Factory started their Checkout and
Aircraft inspection program has improved markedly (at least according to
anecdotal comments in the Newsletter).
=20
If someone is brave enough (ne: stupid enough) to want to think about
setting up a Coop, I'd be willing to seriously consider putting in seed
money. I suspect that Velocity would be most helpful in establishing a
"relationship" to the factory for continued aircraft inspection and =
pilot
checkouts. Given the relatively low cost of repairing Velocities =
compared
to Kansas Cans after a fender-bender, there is little reason that hull
insurance should be 5% of the value of the plane....when we can even get =
it.
If I lived in FL close to the Factory, I'd try doing it tomorrow, but I
don't, so I won't, but that doesn't mean it's not a good idea for =
someone
else that has time on their hands, is organized, knows Velocities and is
hands-on.
=20
Chuck
=20
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: reflector-admin@tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-admin@tvbf.org]On =
Behalf Of
Andy Millin
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2003 3:36 PM
To: reflector@tvbf.org
Subject: RE: REFLECTOR:More Insurance Woes
Bob,
=20
Funny, I JUST renewed my "Aircraft Under Construction" with Avemco. It =
was
$550/yr.
=20
Andy
-----Original Message-----
From: reflector-admin@tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-admin@tvbf.org]On =
Behalf Of
Bob Hugel
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2003 3:31 PM
To: reflector@tvbf.org
Subject: RE: REFLECTOR:More Insurance Woes
Larry,
I called Avemco on Thursday of last week to ask about Builders =
Insurance.
They told me that they do not insure Velocity Kits because they felt =
that
since they do not insure the plane when it is complete it was not fair =
to
insure the kit. This seems like a recent change on their part.
=20
I was quoted for a $60K replacement cost kit, $600/yr by Falcon on the =
same
day (I'm instrument rated). Falcon suggested that I call Avemco because
they felt that Avemco could do a better price, but as it turns out, they
will not bother.
=20
Today, I emailed Pam with all the particulars and I'm awaiting a =
response on
price.
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: reflector-admin@tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-admin@tvbf.org]On =
Behalf Of
Milehitaz@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2003 2:46 PM
To: reflector@tvbf.org
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:More Insurance Woes
I am using Avemco for builders insurance. It runs me about 450 a year. =
Your
right, it's very strange that they will offer me the build Ins, and the
cheapest in the biz, but don't want me when it comes time to fly. Oh =
well.
Best to all,
Larry=20
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<DIV><SPAN class=3D953022121-06052003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff>Chuck, I like=20
this idea. You would have to consider a stop-loss, overarching =
policy for=20
general protection, to cover the co-op in the event of an excess of=20
settlements. The key would be in "actuality," the low cost of=20
repairs carried out. Liability would be a separate =
issue. You=20
are just talking about hull, only, correct?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D953022121-06052003><FONT face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D953022121-06052003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff>The actuary=20
biz in the insurance industry is volatile and flexible. It is =
constantly changing based on "actuals." That is the name of the =
game. Any=20
chance that investors might benefit from paid interest, as in a mutual =
fund,=20
still protected by a stop-loss policy? </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D953022121-06052003><FONT face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D953022121-06052003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff>You=20
definitely would need some professional, =
feet-glued-to-the-ground-of-reality,=20
experienced counsel to pull it off. Any builders in the =
insurance biz=20
who can point the way? I have one contact who has been an=20
actuary.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D953022121-06052003><FONT face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D953022121-06052003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff>BTW, I bet a=20
co-op has been discussed multiple times in the past!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D953022121-06052003><FONT face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D953022121-06052003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff>Blessings to=20
all.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D953022121-06052003><FONT face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D953022121-06052003><FONT face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff>Hoop</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr =
align=3Dleft><FONT=20
face=3DTahoma size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>=20
reflector-admin@tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-admin@tvbf.org] <B>On =
Behalf Of=20
</B>Chuck Jensen<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, May 06, 2003 1:56 =
PM<BR><B>To:</B>=20
'reflector@tvbf.org'<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: REFLECTOR:More Insurance=20
Woes<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D229340120-06052003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2> All,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D229340120-06052003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D229340120-06052003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>The=20
seeming endless inconsistencies and disparities of insurance=20
practices are not really incongruent when you consider that "they =
just=20
make up the rules</FONT></SPAN><SPAN =
class=3D229340120-06052003><FONT=20
face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2> as they go along." =
Honest, no=20
kidding. Insurance underwriting and the weather have one thing =
in=20
common; they change daily...and usually for the worse. As =
Hytec45=20
mentioned, the insurance companies took a whippin' on 9/11, and now =
we're the=20
"whippees." </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D229340120-06052003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D229340120-06052003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>It's=20
so darn complicated, but a Coop for hull insurance that was talked =
about in=20
the Newsletter really does make good sense. Hull insurance is a=20
different animal than liability insurance because hull damage is=20
quantifiable and estimable, unlike liability which only stops at the =
limits of=20
a lawyer's mind. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D229340120-06052003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D229340120-06052003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>I'm=20
not going to volunteer to set it up, but a non-profit Coop that =
charged=20
3-5% of the hull value and rebated the excess over the paid-loss =
experience=20
(and overhead), could end up providing hull insurance for an effective =
1-2% of=20
the hull value.....which is something we could all live with. =
The loss=20
experience on the Velocity since the Factory started their Checkout =
and=20
Aircraft inspection program has improved markedly (at least according =
to=20
anecdotal comments in the Newsletter).</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D229340120-06052003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D229340120-06052003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>If=20
someone is brave enough (ne: stupid enough) to want to think about =
setting up=20
a Coop, I'd be willing to seriously consider putting in seed =
money. I=20
suspect that Velocity would be most helpful in establishing=20
a "relationship" to the factory for continued aircraft inspection =
and=20
pilot checkouts. Given the relatively low cost of repairing =
Velocities=20
compared to Kansas Cans after a fender-bender, there is little reason =
that=20
hull insurance should be 5% of the value of the plane....when we can =
even get=20
it. If I lived in FL close to the Factory, I'd try doing it =
tomorrow,=20
but I don't, so I won't, but that doesn't mean it's not a good idea =
for=20
someone else that has time on their hands, is organized, knows =
Velocities=20
and is hands-on.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D229340120-06052003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D229340120-06052003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>Chuck</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D229340120-06052003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D229340120-06052003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> =
reflector-admin@tvbf.org=20
[mailto:reflector-admin@tvbf.org]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Andy=20
Millin<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, May 06, 2003 3:36 PM<BR><B>To:</B>=20
reflector@tvbf.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: REFLECTOR:More Insurance=20
Woes<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D929573419-06052003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>Bob,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D929573419-06052003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D929573419-06052003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>Funny, I JUST renewed my "Aircraft Under Construction" =
with=20
Avemco. It was $550/yr.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D929573419-06052003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D929573419-06052003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>Andy</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> =
reflector-admin@tvbf.org=20
[mailto:reflector-admin@tvbf.org]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Bob=20
Hugel<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, May 06, 2003 3:31 PM<BR><B>To:</B>=20
reflector@tvbf.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: REFLECTOR:More Insurance =
Woes<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D105402619-06052003>Larry,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D105402619-06052003>I called Avemco on Thursday of last =
week to ask=20
about Builders Insurance. They told me that they do not =
insure=20
Velocity Kits because they felt that since they do not insure the =
plane=20
when it is complete it was not fair to insure the kit. This =
seems=20
like a recent change on their part.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D105402619-06052003></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D105402619-06052003>I was quoted for a $60K replacement =
cost kit,=20
$600/yr by Falcon on the same day (I'm instrument rated). =
Falcon=20
suggested that I call Avemco because they felt that Avemco could =
do a=20
better price, but as it turns out, they will not=20
bother.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D105402619-06052003></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D105402619-06052003>Today, I emailed Pam with all the =
particulars and=20
I'm awaiting a response on price.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D105402619-06052003>Bob</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>=20
reflector-admin@tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-admin@tvbf.org]<B>On =
Behalf=20
Of </B>Milehitaz@aol.com<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, May 06, 2003 =
2:46=20
PM<BR><B>To:</B> reflector@tvbf.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re:=20
REFLECTOR:More Insurance Woes<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><FONT=20
face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT lang=3D0 face=3DTahoma =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D3=20
FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF">I am using Avemco for builders insurance. =
It runs me=20
about 450 a year. Your right, it's very strange that they will =
offer me=20
the build Ins, and the cheapest in the biz, but don't want me =
when it=20
comes time to fly. Oh well. Best to all,<BR>Larry</FONT>=20
=
</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>=
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