REFLECTOR:RE: REFLECTOR attitude
Alexander Balic
reflector@tvbf.org
Sun, 27 Jul 2003 23:06:47 -0500
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Ronnie,
I agree with you there, I don't appreciate the berating that goes on here
(occasionally) but it wont stop me from contributing, it would be better of
course to explain about why someone disagrees, instead of the name calling
ect.... because if everyone did the same thing as your friend, then there
would be not exchange of the valuable information that I believe this list
provides. So hope we all can get back to basics and contribute to this list
without the BS......
Alex
PS And you are right the reflector is much more civilized than most - some
lists are so full of arguments, name calling, and other useless garbage,
that they are almost completely worthless.
-----Original Message-----
From: reflector-admin@tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-admin@tvbf.org]On Behalf
Of Ronnie Brown
Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2003 5:30 PM
To: reflector@tvbf.org
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:Fw: Testing fuel tanks
Alex,
Well, I will say sometimes you have to have tough skin to contribute to
this list - but on the other hand this list is much more civil than most!
I can't speak for the individual but I have talked with several folks who
felt belittled, berated, and generally shot down when they put their
suggestion on the Reflector.
We should explain why we don't agree with someone, not shoot them down.
There are NO perfect airplanes nor perfect systems. The nice thing about
homebuilts is that we get to build them pretty much the way we want. And we
get to keep improving them. That's where this list helps us all!
Ronnie
----- Original Message -----
From: Alexander Balic
To: reflector@tvbf.org
Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2003 10:31 AM
Subject: RE: REFLECTOR:Fw: Testing fuel tanks
No offense to you Ronnie or your friend, but I don't understand the
logic about why he doesn't want to post on the reflector- is he afraid that
someone will chastise him for something he might say? or is he "punishing"
us for a few bad comments that are posted here on occasion? Doesn't make
sense to me personally- I appreciate his input (through you) and actually
might go borrow one of those devices, so good for you for forwarding it to
the group, and I'm sorry that your friend doesn't want to talk to the rest
of us anymore- did he take his ball and go home when he was a kid? (please
don't be offended- that was just a joke) as always, ALL input is
appreciated.
Alex
-----Original Message-----
From: reflector-admin@tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-admin@tvbf.org]On
Behalf Of Ronnie Brown
Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2003 8:10 AM
To: reflector@tvbf.org
Subject: REFLECTOR:Fw: Testing fuel tanks
I'm forwarding this note from a lurker who has quit writing to the
Reflector because of some bad manners from some of our members. He is not
the only one that lurks and doesn't write for this very reason. As you can
see, here's some great information but you wouldn't have gotten it
otherwise.
So watch your manners and etiquette! We need all of the input we can
get to make our V's as safe and enjoyable as they can be! Even bad ideas
spark great discussions and information exchange!!!!!
See you at Oshkosh!
Ronnie
----- Original Message -----
From: Ronnie Brown
To: (omitted at author's request)
Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2003 10:03 AM
Subject: Re: Testing fuel tanks
That sounds like the trick for sure! What kind of smoke is used?
And I checked my gas caps yesterday. Just hooked a 3/8" nylon tube to
the vent, unloaded about 3-4 lung fulls of air into the tanks, put soap suds
on the caps and found nothing. Took all of 15 minutes to do it.
I think Don White's idea of checking fuel levels every 30 minutes
while in flight is a super idea (I have a timer set to do the same thing).
My header tank has a Westach capacitance sender in it and it always
says the header tank is full. As it should be with 3/8" vent lines, sloping
upwards to a common header then vented out the bottom with the slash cut
toward the front to build pressure - not vacuum in the vent and tank system.
As some else mentioned, there's not a whole lot of fuel head that we are
working with.
I have seen oil and water lines trap air and impede liquid flow, but a
few bumps or some alternate rudder inputs ought to break these loose. The
fuel lines should slope downward from the strakes, which will help avoid
this situation.
I'm going to resend your note (without your name) to the reflector.
Folks should know about the leak checker available at their local Toyota
dealer.
See ya
Ronnie
----- Original Message -----
From: DELETED BY AUTHOR'S REQUEST
To: romott@adelphia.net
Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2003 8:08 PM
Subject: Testing fuel tanks
Hi Ronnie,
Been watching the continuing thread about pressure testing fuel
tanks. Down at the Toyota dealership, we have a neat tool for diagnosing
evaporative fuel system leaks in cars. It is a flow gauge type unit that can
be calibrated to sense a leak as small as .010" with less than 1 psi
pressure. On top of that, it has the ability to inject smoke into the tank
to make any leak readily apparent. Just the other day I used it to find a
fuel filler cap that would seal in one direction but when rotated 180 deg,
would allow pressure to escape. I had performed a pressure test from an
access port at the engine area and found that the system would hold 775mmHg.
I then removed the cap to release the pressure and then reinstalled the cap.
I road tested the car monitoring the fuel pressure sensor and found that the
tank would not build pressure beyond atm of 761mmHg.
That would have been hard to find without the smoke.
Maybe some of the builders could suck up to a tech with a six-pack
abd get their neighborhood wrench to bring a tester home.
--Boundary_(ID_1/KYn1DeaJ5F/YNjLdGYdw)
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<DIV><SPAN class=446080004-28072003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Ronnie,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=446080004-28072003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=446080004-28072003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>I
agree with you there, I don't appreciate the berating that goes on here
(occasionally) but it wont stop me from contributing, it would be better of
course to explain about why someone disagrees, instead of the name calling
ect.... because if everyone did the same thing as your friend, then there would
be not exchange of the valuable information that I believe this list
provides. So hope we all can get back to basics and contribute to this
list without the BS......</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=446080004-28072003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=446080004-28072003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Alex</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=446080004-28072003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=446080004-28072003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>PS And
you are right the reflector is much more civilized than most - some lists are so
full of arguments, name calling, and other useless garbage, that they are
almost completely worthless.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> reflector-admin@tvbf.org
[mailto:reflector-admin@tvbf.org]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Ronnie
Brown<BR><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, July 27, 2003 5:30 PM<BR><B>To:</B>
reflector@tvbf.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: REFLECTOR:Fw: Testing fuel
tanks<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Alex,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Well, I will say sometimes you have to have tough skin to
contribute to this list - but on the other hand this list is much more
civil than most! </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>I can't speak for the individual but I have talked with
several folks who felt belittled, berated, and generally shot down when they
put their suggestion on the Reflector. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>We should explain why we don't agree with someone, not shoot
them down. There are NO perfect airplanes nor perfect systems. The
nice thing about homebuilts is that we get to build them pretty much the way
we want. And we get to keep improving them. That's where this list
helps us all!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Ronnie</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=alex157@direcway.com href="mailto:alex157@direcway.com">Alexander
Balic</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=reflector@tvbf.org
href="mailto:reflector@tvbf.org">reflector@tvbf.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, July 27, 2003 10:31
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: REFLECTOR:Fw: Testing fuel
tanks</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=936402214-27072003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>No
offense to you Ronnie or your friend, but I don't understand the logic about
why he doesn't want to post on the reflector- is he afraid that someone will
chastise him for something he might say? or is he "punishing" us for a few
bad comments that are posted here on occasion? Doesn't make sense to
me personally- I appreciate his input (through you) and actually might
go borrow one of those devices, so good for you for forwarding it to the
group, and I'm sorry that your friend doesn't want to talk to the rest of us
anymore- did he take his ball and go home when he was a kid? (please don't
be offended- that was just a joke) as always, ALL input is
appreciated.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=936402214-27072003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=936402214-27072003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Alex</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> reflector-admin@tvbf.org
[mailto:reflector-admin@tvbf.org]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Ronnie
Brown<BR><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, July 27, 2003 8:10 AM<BR><B>To:</B>
reflector@tvbf.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> REFLECTOR:Fw: Testing fuel
tanks<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>I'm forwarding this note from a lurker who has quit
writing to the Reflector because of some bad manners from some of our
members. He is not the only one that lurks and doesn't write
for this very reason. As you can see, here's some great information
but you wouldn't have gotten it otherwise.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>So watch your manners and etiquette! We need all
of the input we can get to make our V's as safe and enjoyable as they can
be! Even bad ideas spark great discussions and information
exchange!!!!!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>See you at Oshkosh!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Ronnie </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A
title=romott@adelphia.net href="mailto:romott@adelphia.net">Ronnie
Brown</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> (omitted at author's request)</DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, July 27, 2003 10:03 AM</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: Testing fuel tanks</DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>That sounds like the trick for sure! What kind of
smoke is used?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>And I checked my gas caps yesterday. Just hooked a
3/8" nylon tube to the vent, unloaded about 3-4 lung fulls of air
into the tanks, put soap suds on the caps and found nothing. Took
all of 15 minutes to do it. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>I think Don White's idea of checking fuel levels every
30 minutes while in flight is a super idea (I have a timer set to do the
same thing).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>My header tank has a Westach capacitance sender in it
and it always says the header tank is full. As it should be
with 3/8" vent lines, sloping upwards to a common header then vented out
the bottom with the slash cut toward the front to build pressure - not
vacuum in the vent and tank system. As some else mentioned, there's
not a whole lot of fuel head that we are working with. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>I have seen oil and water lines trap air and impede
liquid flow, but a few bumps or some alternate rudder inputs ought to
break these loose. The fuel lines should slope downward from the
strakes, which will help avoid this situation.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>I'm going to resend your note (without your name) to the
reflector. Folks should know about the leak checker available at
their local Toyota dealer.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>See ya</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Ronnie</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:
DELETED BY AUTHOR'S REQUEST</B></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"> </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>To:</B>
<A title=romott@adelphia.net
href="mailto:romott@adelphia.net">romott@adelphia.net</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, July 26, 2003 8:08
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Testing fuel tanks</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT><FONT size=2></FONT><FONT size=2></FONT><FONT
size=2></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Hi Ronnie,</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>Been watching the continuing thread about pressure testing fuel
tanks. Down at the Toyota dealership, we have a neat tool for diagnosing
evaporative fuel system leaks in cars. It is a flow gauge type unit that
can be calibrated to sense a leak as small as .010" with less than 1 psi
pressure. On top of that, it has the ability to inject smoke into the
tank to make any leak readily apparent. Just the other day I used it to
find a fuel filler cap that would seal in one direction but when rotated
180 deg, would allow pressure to escape. I had performed a pressure test
from an access port at the engine area and found that the system would
hold 775mmHg. I then removed the cap to release the pressure and then
reinstalled the cap. I road tested the car monitoring the fuel pressure
sensor and found that the tank would not build pressure beyond atm of
761mmHg.</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>That would have been hard to find without the smoke.</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>Maybe some of the builders could suck up to a tech with a six-pack
abd get their neighborhood wrench to bring a tester home.</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT
size=2></FONT> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
--Boundary_(ID_1/KYn1DeaJ5F/YNjLdGYdw)--