REFLECTOR: Ordering an MT Prop

Dave Nelson reflector@tvbf.org
Mon, 8 Dec 2003 20:38:32 -0600


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I'm sorry to hear about your problem.

All I can say is that:
- They were always upfront with me regarding the motor problems, and the =
history of problems they were having
- They explained carefully what the defect in the original "bell" motor =
was, why/how they were fixing it, and when
- They never tried to delay, obfusticate, decieve, or deny me or my =
issues.
- I never said that they told me my problem was isolated.  In fact, the =
contrary is true. =20

Sorry... count me as a careful consumer and a happy customer.  It might =
be who you are talking too (although that shouldn't matter).  I have had =
most of the technical discussions with Josef, who I understand to be one =
of the lead engineers.  At the Oshkosh airshow, while he (Josef) was =
installing the new motor on my prop, the owner came up and introduced =
himself - and apologised for my problems. =20

The issue with the motor, as I understand it, was that it was a high =
efficency design which Josef identified as a "bell" motor.  The term =
"bell" had to do with the shape of the motor and/or the permanent =
magnet, which was shaped like a bell.  This enabled a much higher =
efficency (hence the smaller, lighter motor as opposed to the =
replacement).  But, as it was shaped like a bell, it apperantly =
resonated.  Also, I was told it didn't have bearings on both ends of the =
shaft - just bushings (not certain of this).  Net is the replacement is =
a traditional style motor with bearings on both ends. =20

Part of the issue with the length of time it took to replace the bell =
motor with the new one was that they had problems finding a supplier =
willing to sell motors into the aircraft market.  This coupled with the =
testing & certification process they had to go through meant that it =
took quite a bit longer to deliver the replacement than they (or I) =
would have liked.  But, they've been aware and working on the problem =
for some time. =20

I net this out as follows - I had a good dialoge with them at every =
turn.  They were up front with me throughout.  There was never an issue =
regarding warranty.  They self-identified another issue, the cosmetic =
damage to the finish, and volunteered to fix it at their expense.  Was =
the prop too expensive?  Yes.  Am I pissed off regarding the RPM =
restrictions?  Yes, but I'm damn happy they bothered to test for it =
(remember, they were under no obligation to do so).  Do I feel like =
they've stood behind their product?  Absolutely.

Just one man's opinion.  Please - no flames!

Dave

  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Chuck Jensen=20
  To: 'reflector@tvbf.org'=20
  Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 10:28 AM
  Subject: RE: REFLECTOR: Ordering an MT Prop


  TEC

  Germans and admitting problems (especially engineering problems!) =
don't go well together.   When pressed, they have "done the right thing" =
on a number of occasions, but my overall experience with MT was a little =
like having a tooth drilled without Novocain.  Pretty painful during the =
process but the end result is okay. =20

  Regarding the feedback from MT about your problems being isolated to =
you, well, expecting MT to be an honest broker about their own =
flaws/problems is a little like believing a fat guy is going to leave =
you presents on Xmas eve.  In a perfect world, yes, but in the mean =
time, Reflector helps.

  Chuck Jensen=20
  =20
   -----Original Message-----
  From: reflector-admin@tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-admin@tvbf.org]On =
Behalf Of HYTEC45@aol.com
  Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 10:00 AM
  To: reflector@tvbf.org
  Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Ordering an MT Prop


    In a message dated 12/7/2003 11:13:56 AM Pacific Standard Time, =
davenali@charter.net writes:
      I've had two
      motor problems with my electric prop.  Yes, it's true, I shouldn't =
have had
      ANY problems, but read on.
    I have been through three motors (installed all on my time), the =
last on being the newer heavy duty one.  Funny, they told me that they =
have NEVER had any others go bad.  Same with my blade cracking from the =
restricted RPM range.   How about RPM sencers?  Been through two.  Seems =
I am the only electric having problems.

    TEC
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<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: =
#ffffff"=20
bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>I'm sorry to hear about your problem.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>All I can say is that:</DIV>
<DIV>- They were always upfront with me regarding the motor problems, =
and the=20
history of problems they were having</DIV>
<DIV>- They explained carefully what the defect in the original "bell" =
motor=20
was, why/how they were fixing it, and when</DIV>
<DIV>- They never tried to delay, obfusticate, decieve, or deny me or my =

issues.</DIV>
<DIV>-&nbsp;I never said that they told me my problem was =
isolated.&nbsp; In=20
fact, the contrary is true.&nbsp; </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Sorry... count me as a careful consumer and a happy customer.&nbsp; =
It=20
might be who you are talking too (although that shouldn't matter).&nbsp; =
I have=20
had most of the technical discussions with Josef, who I understand to be =
one of=20
the lead engineers.&nbsp; At the Oshkosh airshow, while he (Josef) was=20
installing the new motor on my prop, the owner came up and introduced =
himself -=20
and apologised for my problems.&nbsp; </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>The issue with the motor, as I understand it, was that it was a =
high=20
efficency design which Josef identified as a "bell" motor.&nbsp; The =
term "bell"=20
had to do with the shape of the motor and/or the permanent magnet, which =
was=20
shaped like a bell.&nbsp; This enabled a much higher efficency (hence =
the=20
smaller, lighter motor as opposed to the replacement).&nbsp; But, as it =
was=20
shaped like a bell, it apperantly resonated.&nbsp; Also, I was told it =
didn't=20
have bearings on both ends of the shaft - just bushings (not certain of=20
this).&nbsp; Net is the replacement is a traditional style motor with =
bearings=20
on both ends.&nbsp; </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Part of the issue with the length of time it took to replace the =
bell motor=20
with the new one was that they had problems finding a supplier willing =
to sell=20
motors into the aircraft market.&nbsp; This coupled with the testing =
&amp;=20
certification process they had to go through meant that it took quite a =
bit=20
longer to deliver the replacement than they (or I) would have =
liked.&nbsp; But,=20
they've been aware and working on the problem for some time.&nbsp; =
</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>I net this out as follows - I had a good dialoge with them at every =

turn.&nbsp; They were up front with me throughout.&nbsp; There was never =
an=20
issue regarding warranty.&nbsp; They self-identified another issue, the =
cosmetic=20
damage to the finish, and volunteered to fix it at their expense.&nbsp; =
Was the=20
prop too expensive?&nbsp; Yes.&nbsp; Am I pissed off regarding the RPM=20
restrictions?&nbsp; Yes, but I'm damn happy they bothered to test for it =

(remember, they were under no obligation to do so).&nbsp; Do I feel like =
they've=20
stood behind their product?&nbsp; Absolutely.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Just one man's opinion.&nbsp; Please - no flames!</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Dave</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Dcjensen@dts9000.com =
href=3D"mailto:cjensen@dts9000.com">Chuck=20
  Jensen</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dreflector@tvbf.org=20
  href=3D"mailto:'reflector@tvbf.org'">'reflector@tvbf.org'</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, December 08, 2003 =
10:28=20
  AM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: REFLECTOR: =
Ordering an MT=20
  Prop</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D942562915-08122003>TEC</SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D942562915-08122003></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D942562915-08122003>Germans and admitting problems =
(especially=20
  engineering problems!) don't go well together.&nbsp;&nbsp; When =
pressed, they=20
  have "done the right thing" on a number of occasions, but&nbsp;my =
overall=20
  experience with MT was a little like having a tooth drilled without=20
  Novocain.&nbsp; Pretty painful during the process but the end result =
is=20
  okay.&nbsp; </SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D942562915-08122003></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D942562915-08122003>Regarding the feedback from MT=20
  about&nbsp;your problems being isolated to you, well, expecting MT to =
be an=20
  honest broker about their own flaws/problems is a little like =
believing a fat=20
  guy is going to leave you presents on Xmas eve.&nbsp; In a perfect =
world, yes,=20
  but in the mean time, Reflector helps.</SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D942562915-08122003></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>Chuck Jensen&nbsp;<BR><FONT face=3DTahoma><SPAN=20
  class=3D942562915-08122003><FONT =
face=3DArial>&nbsp;</FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DTahoma><SPAN=20
  class=3D942562915-08122003>&nbsp;</SPAN>-----Original=20
  Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> reflector-admin@tvbf.org=20
  [mailto:reflector-admin@tvbf.org]<B>On Behalf Of=20
  </B>HYTEC45@aol.com<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, December 08, 2003 10:00=20
  AM<BR><B>To:</B> reflector@tvbf.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: REFLECTOR: =
Ordering=20
  an MT Prop<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
  <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV>
    <DIV>In a message dated 12/7/2003 11:13:56 AM Pacific Standard Time, =

    davenali@charter.net writes:</DIV>
    <BLOCKQUOTE=20
    style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px =
solid"><FONT=20
      face=3DArial>I've had two<BR>motor problems with my electric =
prop.&nbsp;=20
      Yes, it's true, I shouldn't have had<BR>ANY problems, but read=20
    on.</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
    <DIV>I have been through three motors (installed all on my time), =
the last=20
    on being the newer heavy duty one.&nbsp; Funny, they told me that =
they have=20
    NEVER had any others go bad.&nbsp; Same with my blade cracking from =
the=20
    restricted RPM range.&nbsp;&nbsp; How about RPM sencers?&nbsp; Been =
through=20
    two.&nbsp; Seems I am the only electric having problems.</DIV>
    <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV>TEC</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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