REFLECTOR: Ordering an MT Prop

Scott Baker reflector@tvbf.org
Thu, 4 Dec 2003 17:47:14 -0500


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TEC,
Thanks for the introduction!
I do have a few comments and news to share along the MT versus =
non-counterweighted, 4-cylinder, Lycoming front ...
The latest info from MT (love em or hate em) is that they are working on =
a solution.  As we speak, engineers from the Mt factory are visiting =
Mt-USA in Florida and are in the process of performing vibration tests =
and analysis on an unaltered MTV-12, hydraulic propeller installation on =
a Velocity.  Following this, they plan to install a new propeller model =
(with thicker blades) on the Velocity - and repeat the vibration =
analysis to determine if the vibration goes away (best case) or if the =
"bad" vibration range shifts either higher or lower than the 2200-2550 =
rpm range that is typically used during cruise (second best case).  They =
hope to have meaningful data within the next 10-days.  If this works - =
and I hope that it does - it is unclear what it will mean for existing =
owners who are presently operating MTV-12 and MTV-18 propellers on =
non-counterweighted Lycoming engines.
I hope that Don H. (the Cozy builder) receives good performance from his =
Hoffman.  I had many conversations with Mt about Don's application - =
hoping that we could find a solution that would allow him to operate an =
Mt propeller on his Cozy.  When I mentioned to Mt that Don was going to =
Hoffman because Hoffman did not apply rpm limitations on their =
propellers - the folks at Mt voice strong skepticism that the Hoffman =
would perform any better than the Mt.  Paraphrasing their words ... the =
Lycoming 4-cylinder engine poses extreme challenges to propeller =
designers because of the harsh pounding (my word) that this engine =
imposes on propellers.  Mark my words (they said) ... the Hoffman will =
fail.  We (Mt) are quite familiar with the Hoffman design - and their =
product offers no special advantages in this area.  If Hoffman is saying =
their propeller will work, where ours will not - the statement is simply =
not true.
I am not an expert on Hoffman's design, however I hope for Hoffman's =
sake that their propeller works as they say it will, because if it =
doesn't ... Don's going to be one very angry person.
Best regards,
Scott B.

  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: HYTEC45@aol.com=20
  To: reflector@tvbf.org=20
  Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 11:13 AM
  Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Ordering an MT Prop


  In a message dated 12/3/2003 4:34:48 PM Pacific Standard Time, =
sbakr@comcast.net writes:
    Doug,
    Before I forget, if you are operating a Lycoming IO-360C1C or other =
Lycoming non-counterweighted crank shaft engine, the MT-Propeller(s) for =
this application have certain operational rpm restrictions that need to =
be followed.
  Being the one who brought this RPM restriction range for =
non-counterweighted engines "out of the closet," I have had first hand =
experience with the blade cracking, and open to options.  My hanger =
neighbor (Don) is building a Cozy 4, with a non-counterweighted Lyc. He =
had an mt ordered through Velocity.  Yes, he checked and Velocity was =
the best provider he could find.  However, when he learned of the =
restricted range, he investigated other options.  A fellow at our =
airport has a Defiant, with Hoffmans on it.  Don contacted Hoffman who =
said they could provide a propeller without a restricted range for the =
non-counterweighted engines, so he ordered one.  He said Velocity was =
very accommodating on canceling the mt order.  However, the cost is =
going to be about $2,000 more than the mt from Velocity.  I don't really =
think this is the direction we want to go.

  Maybe Scott Baker has some info regarding pros & cons of the Hoffman, =
other than the price.

  TEC  
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<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1276" name=3DGENERATOR>
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</HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: =
#ffffff"=20
bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>TEC,</DIV>
<DIV>Thanks for the introduction!</DIV>
<DIV>I do have a few comments and news to share along the MT versus=20
non-counterweighted, 4-cylinder, Lycoming front ...</DIV>
<DIV>The latest info from MT (love em or hate em) is that they are =
working on a=20
solution.&nbsp; As we speak, engineers from the Mt factory are visiting =
Mt-USA=20
in Florida and are in the process of performing vibration tests and =
analysis on=20
an unaltered MTV-12, hydraulic propeller installation on a =
Velocity.&nbsp;=20
Following this, they plan to install a new propeller model (with thicker =
blades)=20
on the Velocity - and repeat the vibration analysis to determine if the=20
vibration goes away (best case) or if the "bad" vibration range shifts =
either=20
higher or lower than the 2200-2550 rpm range that is typically used =
during=20
cruise (second best case).&nbsp; They hope to have meaningful data =
within the=20
next 10-days.&nbsp; If this works - and I hope that it does - it is =
unclear what=20
it will mean for existing owners who are presently operating MTV-12 and =
MTV-18=20
propellers on non-counterweighted Lycoming engines.</DIV>
<DIV>I hope that Don H. (the Cozy builder) receives good performance =
from his=20
Hoffman.&nbsp; I had many conversations with Mt about Don's application =
- hoping=20
that we could find a solution that would allow him to operate an Mt =
propeller on=20
his Cozy.&nbsp; When I mentioned to Mt that Don was going to Hoffman =
because=20
Hoffman did not apply rpm limitations on their propellers - the folks at =
Mt=20
voice strong skepticism that the Hoffman would perform any better than =
the=20
Mt.&nbsp; Paraphrasing their words ... the Lycoming 4-cylinder engine =
poses=20
extreme challenges to propeller designers because of the harsh pounding =
(my=20
word) that this engine imposes on propellers.&nbsp; Mark my words (they =
said)=20
... the Hoffman will fail.&nbsp; We (Mt) are quite familiar with the =
Hoffman=20
design - and their product offers no special advantages in this =
area.&nbsp; If=20
Hoffman is saying their propeller will work, where ours will not - the =
statement=20
is simply not true.</DIV>
<DIV>I am not an expert on Hoffman's design, however I hope for =
Hoffman's sake=20
that their propeller works as they say it will, because if it doesn't =
... Don's=20
going to be one very angry person.</DIV>
<DIV>Best regards,</DIV>
<DIV>Scott B.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3DHYTEC45@aol.com =
href=3D"mailto:HYTEC45@aol.com">HYTEC45@aol.com</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dreflector@tvbf.org=20
  href=3D"mailto:reflector@tvbf.org">reflector@tvbf.org</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, December 04, =
2003 11:13=20
  AM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: REFLECTOR: =
Ordering an MT=20
  Prop</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <DIV>In a message dated 12/3/2003 4:34:48 PM Pacific Standard Time, <A =

  href=3D"mailto:sbakr@comcast.net">sbakr@comcast.net</A> writes:</DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE=20
  style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px =
solid">
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Doug,</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Before I forget, if you are =
operating a=20
    Lycoming IO-360C1C or other Lycoming non-counterweighted crank shaft =
engine,=20
    the MT-Propeller(s) for this application have certain operational =
rpm=20
    restrictions that need to be =
followed.</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
  <DIV>Being the one who brought this RPM restriction range for=20
  non-counterweighted engines "out of the closet," I have had first hand =

  experience with the blade cracking, and open to options.&nbsp; My =
hanger=20
  neighbor (Don) is building a Cozy 4, with a non-counterweighted =
Lyc.&nbsp;He=20
  had an mt ordered through Velocity.&nbsp; Yes, he checked and Velocity =
was the=20
  best provider he could find.&nbsp; However, when he learned of the =
restricted=20
  range, he investigated other options.&nbsp; A fellow at our airport =
has a=20
  Defiant, with Hoffmans on it.&nbsp;&nbsp;Don contacted&nbsp;Hoffman =
who said=20
  they could provide a propeller without a restricted range for the=20
  non-counterweighted engines, so he ordered one.&nbsp; He said Velocity =
was=20
  very accommodating on canceling the mt order.&nbsp; However, the cost =
is going=20
  to be about $2,000 more than the mt from Velocity.&nbsp; I don't =
really think=20
  this is the direction we&nbsp;want to go.</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>Maybe Scott Baker has some info regarding pros &amp; cons of the =
Hoffman,=20
  other than the price.</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>TEC&nbsp; </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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