REFLECTOR:Re: EFIS systems

[KeithHallsten]

Wayne,
I'm in about the same place as you are; I'm trying hard not to pick out
instruments and nav radios yet, because I want to get more info from field
experience (I won't need them for about a year at my rate of production,
anyway).
I have been watching Dynon go through some teething problems lately, and
before that Blue Mountain went through a few permutations.  My impression is
that Dynon hasn't quite finished, but will probably turn out OK over the
next year or so.  I really like Grand Rapid's design pholosophy for their
EFIS better than BMA's, but they don't start shipping until October, and
then we can begin watching their teething process!
I'm really glad we have the opportunity to make use of these "experimental"
instrumentation systems, but I have only so much appetite for participating
in the shakeout of primary flight instrumentation while I'm shaking the bugs
out of my airframe and engine installation!  I think we're entering a great
new world in the area of instrumentation, though and looking forward to
planning my panel next summer!
Keith

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen@dts9000.com>
To: <reflector@tvbf.org>
Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2003 5:57 AM
Subject: RE: REFLECTOR:Re: EFIS systems


> Wayne,
>
> Thanks for the info.  From the comments of many on this site, I did
further
> web investigation.  It seems a number of your points are obviously well
> taken and others are interesting propositions.
>
> The electronic instrumentation companies seem to be going through the
> standard bell curve for innovation.  Initially one or two are doing
> something.  Then, beit through the market or improvements in technology,
it
> catches fire and 20 or 30 start doing it.  Then it all shakes out and we
end
> up with 4 or 5 survivors in the business.
>
> Since no one wants a dead-ender, the trick is picking the survivors.  Big
is
> a good survival characteristic, but not always (can you say, Enron and
> Arthur Anderson).  Best is helpful but sometimes only tangentially related
> to survival.  Cheapest is certainly not a signal of success, unless it
truly
> represents the lower overhead of a small company and not the quality of
the
> product or desperation.
>
> As much as I'd like to do something now, maybe I'll wait a bit to see
which
> heads bob to the surface.  But I will take you up on the offer to look at
> your plane.  I'm headed that way in a couple months and will check with
you
> first to see what the status of things are.  All the info from everyone is
> much appreciated, even if it doesn't making the decision-making process
any
> easier.
>
> Chuck
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: reflector-admin@tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-admin@tvbf.org]On
> Behalf Of Wayne Lanza
> Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2003 7:55 PM
> To: reflector@tvbf.org
> Subject: REFLECTOR:Re: EFIS systems
>
>
> Hello to All,
>   As Andy has noted, I do monitor the reflector and yes I have some very
> cool
> EFIS toys. The guys at Velocity and myself have amassed a good bit of
> useful
> experience regarding many of the EFIS systems. I represent Digifly for
> the U.S.
> and am very familiar with the Blue Mountain as well as the UPS-AT and
> Garmin
> equipment. I like the UPS-AT MX20 as an MFD solution but it doesn't
> offer engine
> and flight data displays. The same goes for the Garmin but at a higher
> cost...
>
>   The Blue Mountain system is doing well for us with the new "Dash-5"
> airplane.
> I have installed a triple Digifly fms100 system in my Velocity that
> includes engine,
> moving map, GPS, and complete flight display with AHRS. The system from
> Grand Rapids Technology is not yet ready but should mature into a nice
> unit.
>
>   The Dynon has some inherent design problems, it's short term stability
> is OK but
> will precess in short order and it is sensitive to lateral 'G' forces.
> It is rate gyro
> based and lacks the necessary magnetometer functions for long term
> stability.
> It also has some maximum roll rate issues that will cause it to tumble.
> I watched
> it roll while sitting still on the table at Sun-N-Fun - Not good.
>
>   The AHRS solution used by Digifly and Blue Mountain are very similar.
> They
> will not and can not precess nor be tumbled. The worst case recovery
> time from
> a VIOLENT maneuver with the Digifly is 1 second or less, not bad
> considering
> this is simulated at 5 'G's' or so...
>
>   There are many features available in the various systems, currently
> the best
> bang for buck is the Digifly. The only other viable system is the Blue
> Mountain,
> beyond this the price goes up dramatically.
>
>   Do yourself a favor and go for a flight in an aircraft that is
> equipped with an EFIS.
> In many cases the EFIS is cheaper than or competitive with mechanical
> instruments
> and will be far more reliable. There are EFIS manufacturers coming out
> of the wood
> work, some will make it most won't. Blue Mountain is a good company,
> I'd expect to
> see them around for a while. Digifly (an old Italian company) has
> supplied EFIS
> systems for over 15 years. They were flying color GPS moving maps with
> engine
> data about 10 years ago in their ultra lights, while we were still
> using a boat Loran!!
>
>   My Velocity (N81VA - aka "Big Orange") should be back in the air in a
> month. If you
> can make it to the factory, I'll gladly demo flight my system. Other
> than that we are
> preparing a CD that will show actual operations in flight. It will be a
> comprehensive
> presentation and a great resource to our customers. It will be a while
> coming but
> I will be sure to announce availability via the reflector and the web
> site.
>
> Regards to All,
> Wayne Lanza
> Composite Design, Inc.
>
> visit our web site at-  http://www.CompositeDesignInc.com
> ________________________________________________________________
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, August 27, 2003, at 10:39 AM, Andy Millin wrote:
>
> > Chuck,
> >
> > I'm not flying and haven't purchased yet.  I have been looking at the
> > cool
> > new stuff.
> >
> > I very much like the stuff from Grand Rapids Technologies,
> > http://www.grtavionics.com/
> >
> > Also, Wayne Lanza had some very cool toys at OSH.  I would speak with
> > him.
> > I believe he might even be monitoring the reflector.
> >
> > Andy
> >
> >>  -----Original Message-----
> >> From: reflector-admin@tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-admin@tvbf.org]
> >> On Behalf Of Chuck Jensen
> >> Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2003 11:04 AM
> >> To: 'reflector@tvbf.org'
> >> Subject: Glass Panel
> >>
> >> Since some are flying and many are building, and everybody's paying
> >> attention to the new eInstrumentation, I was interested in thoughts on
> >> glass display for the Velo.   The local Av shop is big on a Dynon
> >> unit for
> >> electric Horizon, altimeter,
> >> airspeed, and heading indicator.  Info at www.dynondevelopment.com.
> >>
> >> Is there better equipment, value or future compatibility out there?
> >> Blue Mountain?    UPSat?
> >>
> >>  I'd prefer to avoid Dean's situation wherein a single piece of
> >> equipment
> >> is installed, then it turns out it won't interface with anything else
> >> and
> >> has to be swapped out in order to upgrade other things.  Perhaps these
> >> displays are pretty much independent whereas the vor/gps/com/ap all
> >> ought'
> >> ta work together.
> >>
> >> Chuck
> >>
> > <winmail.dat>
>
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