REFLECTOR: rolls

Fri May 17 11:08:51 CDT 2013

I don't know that another comment is needed on this thread about aerobatic flight in a Velo.  I was USAF trained back in the 60's, and had great hopes to do this.   The Velo webside back some years ago did have a reference somewhere about "dog fight with the best of them."  It has since been removed, maybe because of me.  I had hoped to do simple pos G stuff like immelmans, cuban 8s and so  forth.  I also saw that several people did do airshows in carnard types.  That was then.  
Today I agree fully w/ Rene, and others.  This is not an airplane for aerobatic work just because the wings are stressed to 9+, and it looks like it should.   Also all of the aerobatic trg sources I talked to said no to getting into a V.  If you want to fly upside down, get an aerobatic airplane was their common advice.  Terry

From: renedugas at gmail.com
Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 09:13:39 -0500
To: reflector at tvbf.org
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: rolls

Agree with Mark. The problem with the split-S is speed control. You will hit Vne very quickly. Been there. Not pleasant with constant speed prop in full flat, throttle at idle and engine would up (not sure how high- I was preoccupied with ASI and ground approaching. Pulled about 4 G's. I have Super Decathlon and Extra 300 time under 5 instructors. Three Velo rolls. Maximum aileron causes adverse yaw so lots of rudder but rudder pulls nose groundward as soon as roll begins hence the exaggerated pitch up. No plans to perform another in Velo. Rich G has a roll filmed on his web site for vicarious indulgence. 

Rene' DugasSent from an Apple. 
On May 13, 2013, at 6:33 AM, Mark Magee <edjonesbrady at gmail.com> wrote:

Any aircraft can perform an aileron roll, and a canard aircraft can perform any aerobatic maneuver that does not require a main wing stall to perform. Basically the Velo should be able to be aileron rolled, barrel rolled, perform 1/2 Cuban 8's etc, any maneuver that is 'fly through and keeps 1G or better on the airframe'. I second Rene's recommendations, aerobatic training mandatory, then additional 'Headwork' training from the canard community. There are numerous airshow performers that perform for 20 mins or so and never enter a stall on the main wing, and quite a few guys that perform in Long EZ's.
I think it's a shame that new Private Pilots aren't getting spin training and very little aerobatics. Your head needs to be in a 'comfortable' place should you get flipped inverted by B37 wake turbulence or a rogue blast of Clear Air Turbulence on one wing only (rare). Every pilot should have some intense aerobatic training, and know that their plane flies great inverted, just how to properly recover maintaining 1G throughout and not starving the oil pump or fuel pickups.
Sorry for the long post, just wanted to chime in on this topic. If you have the altitude and get flipped inverted by nearby convective activity, what a great opportunity to complete the inadvertently entered Split S maneuver. Gotta be thinking Split S beforehand, would happen fairly fast. Probably 3.5 G's on the pullout, well within tolerance. Positive G's throughout: good fuel pressure, good oil pressure. If you 'Whifferdill' (uncontrolled flight) you may go negative G and fuel pressure, oil pressure or both. As well your friends and family on-board would be duely 'impressed' should you Split S out of a problem.  You could tell them that's how John Wayne would do it! Did I mention I never fly with my in-laws... :)
90% headwork.

Mark MageeN34XL

On Sun, May 12, 2013 at 10:09 PM, Lou Stedman <stedmanlou at roadrunner.com> wrote:

I have no intention to do a roll just curious about the handling just in 
case a natural occurrence would ever invert me

From: Rene Dugas 
Sent: Sunday, May 12, 2013 8:26 PM
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list 

Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: rolls

Doable but start over 30 degrees pitch angle and start with hard same side 
rudder.  Don't recommend. 

Sent from Rene's iPad. A pleasure.  
Go Apple. 

On May 11, 2013, at 10:11 PM, "Lou Stedman" <stedmanlou at roadrunner.com> 
wrote:

  Has anyone ever done a roll in their Velo? If so how were the handling 
  characteristics? 

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