REFLECTOR: rolls

Mon May 13 12:52:59 CDT 2013

Mark,

Split S out of an inadvertent inverted situation, with your mother-in-law in the back seat.

Better yet, take her to the gun fight ;-)

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Magee <edjonesbrady at gmail.com>
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
Sent: Mon, May 13, 2013 9:13 am
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: rolls

Tom,
I am not heading out to do -any- aerobatics in my Velo, period. On headwork side, it is great to 'Pre-Think' what you'd do if... If I were flipped inverted I would maintain positive G for sure, maybe 1/2 of a 1/2 Cuban 8... Would that be a 1/4 Cuban 8? :)
Just discussing here. In my flight training if we did any 'NON-STD' aerobatic maneuver it was labeled a 'Whifferdill' and was negative points on the hop. So if inverted in my V I will not -just- wings level the bird as this could obviously push a negative G condition.
You must admit it would be fun to Split S out of an inadvertent inverted situation, with your mother-in-law in the back seat. Just keep pulling, cone vision, I would think less than 4.5 G's for a short short.
Sorry, I'm hard wired to never 'commit' a Whifferdil.
Hey if Bob Hoover can do it....
Unfortunately my yanking and banking days are behind me. Until I convince my wife I must have an RV-8A in the barn with the V.

It's all headwork. 
No Whifferdils.
Peace Out.

Mark Magee
N34XL

On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 7:09 AM, Tom Cacek <hytec45 at aol.com> wrote:

Split-S would cause real problems.  Would probably become a "Bonanza" statistic with some structural failure as you would probably far exceed red line and way more than 4G.  Since you would probably be starting it at or above maneuvering speed, this would be above a split entry speed.  The V is so clean, once pointed towards China, even with power reduced, things are going to get fast, FAST.  As long as you keep things pointed horizontally, and keep the attitude under control, regardless of roll angle, a unexpected "upset" in normal flight can be handled with aileron/rudder.  I start a Split in my Pitts around 1.2 stall, and it will still pull 3G and be in the Yellow on exit.  To survive this stuff in a V, is the same way to survive a gun fight.  My number one rule is, "Don't be there",  Number two rule if you have to be there, "have the right gun".  The V isn't it.

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Magee <edjonesbrady at gmail.com>
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
Sent: Mon, May 13, 2013 7:35 am
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: rolls

Any aircraft can perform an aileron roll, and a canard aircraft can perform any aerobatic maneuver that does not require a main wing stall to perform. Basically the Velo should be able to be aileron rolled, barrel rolled, perform 1/2 Cuban 8's etc, any maneuver that is 'fly through and keeps 1G or better on the airframe'. I second Rene's recommendations, aerobatic training mandatory, then additional 'Headwork' training from the canard community. There are numerous airshow performers that perform for 20 mins or so and never enter a stall on the main wing, and quite a few guys that perform in Long EZ's.
I think it's a shame that new Private Pilots aren't getting spin training and very little aerobatics. Your head needs to be in a 'comfortable' place should you get flipped inverted by B37 wake turbulence or a rogue blast of Clear Air Turbulence on one wing only (rare). Every pilot should have some intense aerobatic training, and know that their plane flies great inverted, just how to properly recover maintaining 1G throughout and not starving the oil pump or fuel pickups.
Sorry for the long post, just wanted to chime in on this topic. If you have the altitude and get flipped inverted by nearby convective activity, what a great opportunity to complete the inadvertently entered Split S maneuver. Gotta be thinking Split S beforehand, would happen fairly fast. Probably 3.5 G's on the pullout, well within tolerance. Positive G's throughout: good fuel pressure, good oil pressure. If you 'Whifferdill' (uncontrolled flight) you may go negative G and fuel pressure, oil pressure or both. As well your friends and family on-board would be duely 'impressed' should you Split S out of a problem.  You could tell them that's how John Wayne would do it! Did I mention I never fly with my in-laws... :)
90% headwork.

Mark Magee
N34XL

On Sun, May 12, 2013 at 10:09 PM, Lou Stedman <stedmanlou at roadrunner.com> wrote:

I have no intention to do a roll just curious about the handling just in case a natural occurrence would ever invert me

From: Rene Dugas 
Sent: Sunday, May 12, 2013 8:26 PM

To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list 

Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: rolls

Doable but start over 30 degrees pitch angle and start with hard same side rudder.  Don't recommend. 

Sent from Rene's iPad. A pleasure.  Go Apple. 

On May 11, 2013, at 10:11 PM, "Lou Stedman" <stedmanlou at roadrunner.com> wrote:

Has anyone ever done a roll in their Velo? If so how were the handling   characteristics? 

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